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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:12 pm 
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I had a discussion with somebody elsewhere who was questioning the version with 10 mins between shots at 3:08 and bangs(cricket bat) at 3:17. That does seem like a long time, but although around 3:17 is set by phone times, the 3:08 does have "wiggle room"
Christo Menelou says 3:08 (yet to testify), but Stipps merely said "about 10 minutes", so maybe it was a little less than 10 minutes?

The person I was in discussion with estimated:
Quote:
Feel like i've been generous with these times
From last shot back to bedroom- 30 seconds
Goes back to bathroom and finds toilet door is locked "rushed back to bedroom"- 45 seconds
opens balcony doors and shouts for help,puts legs on, runs to bathroom kicks door- 2 minutes 30 seconds.
Back to bedroom gets bat, back to bathroom 30 seconds.
So personally i feel he would have been back at the toilet door with the bat in around 4 minutes 15 seconds.
Don't think that's an unreasonable estimate.

My reply:
Quote:
Ok I'll go along with your time for the sake of the argument (Discussion).

After doing that OP was then confronted with the state of Reeva in the toilet...perhaps stunned for a short time? He dragged her body out to bathroom to try and assist. That may have used up several minutes? But lets say just 2 minutes.

So with the time you estimate plus the 2 minute that is a total of 6:15 minutes.

THAT contradicts the State timeline... absolutely

Phone call records put time that Burger and Stipp heard bangs at 3:17 (actually a little after) if you add the 6:15 it would have been 6:23+ before OP could possibly have made his first phone call. Yet he made that call at 3:19

The State contention that the shots were at 3:17 simply does leave time to do much of anything before 3:19 when OP made the call. IMO the shots HAD to be earlier than 3:17.

Working the calculation back from the phone call at 3:19..... take off the 6 minutes and 15 seconds and the shots would have been at 3:12:45.

I do not want to labor the point but that is nowhere near the State version of 3:17 and it is getting closer to what Stipp reported as the first set of bangs.

I am convinced in my mind that Stipp heard bangs that were shots first, and then at around 3:17 he heard bat on door. That is also what burger(s) heard... Bat on door.

I would go further and say, the estimates of time it took OP could be off (too short) I would not be surprised if at times he just paused inactive, or pinged about going one way, then the other. Also, as mentioned, Stipp was not being precise with his "10 minutes" estimate.

So I think it is absolutely clear that Stipp heard gunshots at around 3:10 and then bat on door at 3:17. NO DOUBT in my mind at all. No doubt in my mind that Burger heard OP screaming (like a woman) and the cricket bat bangs at 3:17.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Oscar Pistorius murder trial extended to mid-May
23 March 2014

The murder trial of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius will now run until the middle of May after both sides agreed to an extension.

The trial has already overrun its initial timeframe with the prosecution not yet completing its case.

Mr Pistorius denies intentionally shooting his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day last year, saying he mistook her for an intruder.

Last week he said he would sell his home to fund legal costs.

The court in Guateng province said that the trial would continue until 4 April, then adjourn for one week before resuming until 16 May.

"All parties involved" had agreed to the dates, the court said.

The trial will enter its fourth week on Monday, with five more witnesses expected to be called by the prosecution.

...more at link
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26705776

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:52 pm 
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The OJ Simpson Lawyer's Verdict On Pistorius


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:44 pm 
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I agree with your comments regarding Stipp, and I agree that the other noises heard were the noises from the cricket bat, and not from a gun, although I was amazed when I heard them, just how much a bat hitting the door sounded like a gun going off, if I hadn't heard it with my own ears, I'd never have believed it, in fact when it was mentioned at the trial, I laughed.

Reasonable doubt - near certainty - they are going to have a difficulty with this case.

I think the judge will declare OP innocent, but if she does, he may as well have been sentenced to life or 15 years, because his life will never be the same again.

As the interviewer in the video said, if he had lived in LA and naot in Pretoria and had called Shapiro, what would Shapiro's advice have been - "Keep your mouth shut" great advice, say nothing to anyone else, anywhere - let the lawyer do the talking - great advice.

I don't think he planned to murder Reeva. I wonder if Shapiro is watching this trial, you know I think he probably is.

I would love to hear Shapiro's comments at the end of this trial, which I knew from the outset would last much longer than 3 weeks.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Hi Wroughead

Shapiro did a great job for a bad client... can't hold that against him.

I found the interview very good... always nice to hear rational comments backed by reasoned argument.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:54 pm 
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By my rough reckoning the circus is back... in about seven and a half hours (maybe a little longer if Nel is faffing about)

Then... perhaps 6 more early tea-breaks and Nel will rest the State's case?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Well the way I look at it now is that whilst I'm glued to the live trial - a tea break would be nice for us too haha

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:54 am 
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watching live trial now, whilst waiting for expensive company to come to house and clear blocked drains LoL - looks
like it's going to be my week.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:37 am 
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Hi Wroughead... you did it again... I just got back from computer restart... always happens when you show up :)

Good luck with the drains. :95

What is it about SA women... stubborn tarts who will not concede even when confronted with inconsistencies :stamp

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:41 am 
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I'm the computer crash queen - did no -one tell ya?

Yes, it also amazes me that SA woman Stipp here says she did and does not know what her husband's evidence is or will be - 2 people living under the same roof and they don't discuss their respective evidence in a big SA murder trial - oh ppppplllllllllllllease c'mon!

But, that with the passage of time, and the press coverage of the case and purported evidence, they suddenly remember their recollections (which would be fresher at the time, more so than a year later) they realized their initial affidavit was wrong, with more time to think and go over the night's events, she changes her mind about what she heard.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:45 am 
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OOPs - adjurnment to 'confer with my client' yep.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:03 am 
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great idea me too. Apart from lunch - they sure get good breaks in SA judiciary.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:04 am 
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I have a few things to do... will be back after lunch

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:16 am 
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it's way past midnight for you LOL you keep the same hours as I do

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:27 am 
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It's certainly past my bed time... normally.


This is important evidence.... we do need to get as much data on times and events... but these SA lawyer guys... all of them, even Roux stretch it out sooooooooooo much, and in the end important points are still not clear. :wall

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:32 am 
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I am glad she at least is ADAMANT that there were two sets of bangs.. I do not see how anybody can NOT see that as gunshots and Cricket bat sounds?

There is no argument over which came first and so both events are fixed.... despite what Nel says... the cricket bat was at 3:17 for certain.

I am TRYING to get an acurate idea of the time of the first set of bangs... but its a slippery bugger that time :lol

Annette Simms says 3:02... which is really 2:59 (clock fast)... so stuffed if I know. That is a bit early???

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:35 am 
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I agree with you on all of the points, it's very important what time these 'noises' were heard, and the time elapsing between, as well as the calling out of a woman - all very important in fact I'd say crucial.

You're right about the lawyers

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:46 am 
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Her testimony as a whole does not make sense.

bangs at 3:00 and at 3:17.... is just too long a period... longer than any other witnesses... 17 minutes from shots to bat bangs makes no sense? But shots at 3:17 makes no sense either, and leaves the pesky early bangs unexplained as well as a silent cricket bat :wall

All I can think of is that she made same mistake I did in a few posts yesterday... I typed 3:00 when I meant 3:10.... maybe the time she saw (half asleep and with the flu) was 3:12 and not 3:02?? But she will never admit that... and so I am not sure HOW to pin that time down. Her husband said "10 minutes" between sets of bangs, and that is different from her 17 minutes.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:48 am 
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It doesn't make sense at all - I don't get it either. And, it still bothers me that she is not the first witness to have said, words to the effect without me quoting directly, verbatum - well since that night, I've had time to think. I hate this.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:56 am 
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Also I am amazed at how these people are so prepared to be "sure" about things they are probably not sure about... knowing that a man's life literally depends on what they are saying... and they are so calm about it. And not just an anonymous person.. a former neighbour. I would need to be 101% absolutely sure before I testified to something with such serious consequences. In fact even Roux would have trouble getting me to swear to anything as an absolute... I would always add conditions like "I think"

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