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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Since things are slow here with the holiday and all, and because I see this myth is still circulating, I'll take the opportunity to post another excerpt from Richard Hornsby's blog, linked here earlier this week.

RichardHornsby wrote:
Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child

The standard jury instruction for Manslaughter can be found on the Florida Supreme Court’s website under Jury Instruction 7.7.

The instruction contains a number of instructions that are applicable, depending on what is alleged in the formal charging document (called an Information).

As you will see, to prove the crime of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child, the State must prove the following elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1.The victim is dead.
    2.The death of the victim was caused by the culpable negligence of the defendant.
    3.The victim was was a child whose death was caused by the neglect of the defendant, a caregiver.

A “Caregiver” means a parent, adult household member, or other person responsible for a child’s welfare.

A review of the Information in George Zimmerman’s case shows he is charged with a single count of Second Degree Murder. The Information alleges he committed this act as follows:

    By an act imminently dangerous to another, and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design …. kill Trayvon Martin by shooting [him].

The information does not allege that he committed the offense of Second Degree Murder in a culpably negligent way, that he was a caregiver of Trayvon Martin, or that he neglected Trayvon Martin as his caregiver.

Because neither of these elements were alleged, Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child (and its enhanced penalties) is not available as a lesser offense in George Zimmerman’s case. See Griffis v. State, 848 So. 2d 422, 427 (Fla. 1st DCA 2003) (“The information [charging second degree murder] did not allege either neglect or culpable negligence, and section 827.03(3) [Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child] is not a proper lesser offense.”)

Full Disclosure: The reason I’m even aware of this issue, and why I am so sure of it, is because I had it come up in a First Degree Murder trial before Judge Nelson. She upheld my objection and would not allow Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child to be considered as a lesser offense.
...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:54 pm 
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LondoJowo wrote:
The minions at Freddy Leatherhead's place are so disappointed that LIMPapa's videos haven't been shown or things they determined were important to proving 2nd degree murder has not been introduced by the prosecution. Goes to show that Freddy has done a poor job of teaching them actual law. However, anyone with a brain realizes he's milking them for every penny he can using this case as a cause and I hope eventually they will realize that 75% to 80% of what they've sent to him has lined his pockets.

I have to disagree - I'd bet it's more than 75% to 80%. ;) I hope you copy some of the daft and post it here!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Puzzler wrote:
Yes, I think it would be very informative for the defense to call Traymom during their case.

Agreed. Care to expand a bit?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:31 pm 
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:Gslap :lol


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Puzzler wrote:
Yes, I think it would be very informative for the defense to call Traymom during their case.

liesel wrote:
Agreed. Care to expand a bit?


What?

Every mother (parent) fears losing their child at some point or another, and NONE would dispute that Sybrina will be grieving her loss of Trayvon. That said, one must weigh the risk of upsetting the jury by questioning the grieving mother versus WTH could possibly be gained from it.

So ask yourself what could be gained to defend George?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Where you guys been? We did 4th July here yesterday?

I started a thread if people want to post a 4th July shout out

Happy 4th July 2013
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=970




(moved liesel's post) :cool

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
What a dope Parks is and HLN people don’t seem have any shame when it comes to spin and bias.
Parks should wear a IANAL hat. :51



Parks cleared things up for me. GZ's injuries resulted from rolling around in the wet grass. Trayvon never touched him. Ties right in with RJ's testimony.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:26 pm 
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AndrewBranca wrote:
Zimmerman Trial Day 8: Live Video, Analysis & Reader Poll: DNA Inconclusive & Judge Nelson Terse
...

Trial Day 8: Nearing the Close of the State’s Case

We already covered the morning testimony in our mid-day analysis and video, which you can find here:

    Zimmerman Update Exclusive — Mid-Day 8 — State Wins Evidentiary Battle, Loses Testimony War

Normally at this point we would be covering the multiple witnesses that testified in the afternoon.

As it happens, however, the combination of a late return from the lunch recess, some in court wrangling (outside of the juror’s hearing) between Judge Nelson and the defense around the subject of the still-to-be disposed Benjamin Crump, and a direct and cross of the State’s DNA expert that can perhaps be best described as excruciatingly long and uniformly uninformative, brought us to the end of a day that was supposed to see the State rest with no such milestone in sight.

Let’s get what must be done out of the way, and deal with the testimony of the State’s DNA expert.
...


Read more, take poll at Legal Insurrection.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Regarding Hornsby on "Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child", I never heard anyone claim that would be included in the lesser offenses. Manslaughter will no doubt be included which I think the mandatory minimum is 9 years. Then there are the aggravating factors of which the biggest ones will be Trayvon being a minor and the gun v. "unarmed" factor. Oh and another one is that Trayvon was black so that's automatically a doubling of sentence there alone, lol j/k. I don't know if there's anything automatic that is attached because of the aggravating factors, I don't listen to most of these TV lawyers.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:46 pm 
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liesel wrote:
I have to disagree - I'd bet it's more than 75% to 80%. ;) I hope you copy some of the daft and post it here!


I have, three yesterday..... :slap


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:31 pm 
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kbp wrote:
Then I assume you're saying Nelson did not assign specific blame for any specific date missed by either party for the deposition.

liesel wrote:
Nelson assigned all blame to the defense and wouldn't allow explanation. There was no mention of any specific date set and missed that I heard.


Quote:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-trial-day-8-live-video-analylsis-reader-poll-dna-inconclusive-nelson-terse/

Judge Nelson Takes the Defense to Task, Again

Perhaps the highlight of the afternoon, however, occurred prior to the testimony of Gorgone, when Judge Nelson took the opportunity to vent her frustrations at the defense team when they requested additional time to arrange for the deposition of Martin family advisor/attorney Benjamin Crump. She was markedly unsympathetic to the defense’s explanations that they had only been authorized by the 5th District Court of Appeals to depose Crump. It is notable that the authority to depose Crump at all was delivered to the defense by the 5th District Court of Appeals (DCA), which did so by overruling Nelson’s earlier ruling to deny the defense this opportunity. Judge Nelson was also unsympathetic to the defense’ explanations that they had been fully consumed in the intervening period with the Frye hearing, Jury selection, and the State’s presentation of the case. The sense seemed to be that if they’d had enough time to shower and take care of basic biological necessities during the last several weeks, then they had had enough time to depose Crump.

Doesn't provide details revealing WTH she felt the defense actually did wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Hi all,

Happy 4th of July.

I got to thinking about when it comes time to cross examine TM's Mother in regards to her identifying the voice on the very poor quality 911 tape that is screaming as being TM's voice. I would bring up the issue of the much better recording that is likely TM's voice speaking in a normal regular tone recorded on his cell phone that was released just a little while ago. Here is the article about it:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06 ... ublic?lite

Here is the helpful part from that article that could be helpful in impeaching her recognition of TM's voice from the article:

NBC News has not independently authenticated that the voice is Martin’s. Ben Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, says that Martin’s own mother isn’t sure it’s his voice.

If she can't tell if it is his voice on that much clearer recording in normal speech how can she now claim to recognize his voice in a very poor recording of a screaming voice?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Happy 4th July to you SheStone.

A great point... phrased like that.. if she "can't be sure" when its a clear spoken voice.. how can she be "sure" about screams.

I imagine that whatever limited questioning of Sabrina BDLR does.. impeaching her testimony will be like shooting fish in a barrel, but.....

As is being debated at CTH... there is a risk in attacking "the grieving mother" in front of 6 woman jury.

As I posted at CTH... I'd love to see her "shredded" but NOT if it has the risk of being a negative that the Jury will take out on George.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:28 pm 
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70scarrestoguy wrote:
Suppose that the jury is hopelessly deadlocked & Nelson is forced to declare a mistrial. Will State of Florida allow George to walk from the courthouse or will Nelson revoke George's bail bond & hold him in custody until the State decides whether to retry the case?

The only juror that worries me is the transplant from Chicago.


Don't think you need to worry about her.

She's an Hispanic nurse, and heard the Hannety interview where GZ said his Hispanic grandmother helped raise him, and that Spanish was his first language. Tomorrow possibly, when the State rests without calling his parents as witnesses (a cynical ploy on their part putting them on witness list to avoid having them in court during opening testimony) his very Hispanic looking mother will make an entry with his father, possibly solidifying juror B59's identification with her.

Also i think the nurse has had financial difficulties (part of the reason she relocated to Florida) and the testimony GZ wasn't approved for a police job because of 'credit difficulties' may also resonate in his favor.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
As I posted at CTH... I'd love to see her "shredded" but NOT if it has the risk of being a negative that the Jury will take out on George.


Forgive my acronym ignorance, but what and where is CTH?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:37 pm 
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jayjerome wrote:
Forgive my acronym ignorance, but what and where is CTH?


Conservative TreeHouse

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:45 pm 
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SheStone wrote:
Here is the helpful part from that article that could be helpful in impeaching her recognition of TM's voice from the article:

NBC News has not independently authenticated that the voice is Martin’s. Ben Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, says that Martin’s own mother isn’t sure it’s his voice.

If she can't tell if it is his voice on that much clearer recording in normal speech how can she now claim to recognize his voice in a very poor recording of a screaming voice?


Yeah that would be convincing. But the defense first has to prove it's Trayvon's voice. Two questions about that. Is the FBI audio expert also on the defense witness list? And would that evidence be allowed now that Judge Nelson excluded similar evidence from the State?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:03 pm 
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LondoJowo wrote:
The minions at Freddy Leatherhead's place are so disappointed that LIMPapa's videos haven't been shown or things they determined were important to proving 2nd degree murder has not been introduced by the prosecution. Goes to show that Freddy has done a poor job of teaching them actual law. However, anyone with a brain realizes he's milking them for every penny he can using this case as a cause and I hope eventually they will realize that 75% to 80% of what they've sent to him has lined his pockets.


I was just reading over at Fred's place. They are very disappointed and waiting for Bernie to pull the rabbit out of his mustache on Friday to save the case. A few are talking about collecting for Rachael and want Freddy to hold the money for her. Sure he will. :wall :wall :wall
A happy note. Over $40,000 has been donated to an Olympic hopeful Short Track female Skater and Fred is not holding the money.


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