There is not a doubt in Trayvon's mother's mind that it is her son yelling. I think a mother would no her own son's voice no matter what his age. I can even pick out my grandsons voices in a group of hollering children!

I guess I have learned thru the years, that not many things are pure black... or pure white.
Things are very often in varying shades of "grey" I think I have observed.

Guess I mean it possibly could be both males screaming. One screaming for his life because he saw a gun in the other one's hand? (Such death curdling wails like I have never heard before in all my years.) They did sound like imminent death wails.
He knew ... I think. And another man yelling "HELP"... because he is being beaten?

On Jane VM they are saying Z could be a Bully and Dr. Robbi Ludwig said he might be paranoid ... doesn't like other "groups". If that is so, what was Trayvon hearing - if Z is a Bully and racistl? What could he be saying..."You're going to die tonight"? Some experts say there is ALWAYS some truth woven in with their lies. We could examine what Z said Trayvon said. I wonder if some of that is what Z really said to T.?

Trayvon was found on his stomach. I am not sure what that means really. But, if one was on their stomach, and someone was TWISTING - BENDING their arm back/up in such a way that it shouldn't bend ... one might scream and wail in pain?? (Depending how HARD it was being pushed up.) Not sure. I wish it wasn't so dark and some people could really see, AND saw this from the beginning. Have to listen to the entire 911 call where we can hear ALL of the screaming. This could all mean nothing... but I am sure fighters can roll around changing positions... top dog, etc.

Not always great, being a creative musician . It has it's moments ... but we don't know how to turn it off... can't seem to. I am learning a lot about myself from this case and from the bright people on R.T.

Well yes... or maybe some of the noises heard were the whine of the engines on an alien space craft.

It makes NO SENSE to guess what might have been.

There is only one description of what happened.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes I guess we will hear too from experts from each side as to who yelled "help" and who was "screaming", and
if it was all the same person.

Seems they can always find a canary to sing their song, if they pay them enough. Both sides.

ARGHHHHH!

R... thanks for allowing us/me this forum to express our thoughts, and not being insulting to us if we don't agree.
I too would NEVER insult anyone who didn't agree with me either.

Heard someone say on Dr. Drew tonight - "If a person isn't healthy enough to handle conflict in a civilized way ...
who needs them?"

I do know some are being thrown off sites IF they don't think Z. is totally innocent. Some Moderators are really taking sides and exercising their power big time, on some sites.

Just think, Joni.....

At the end of all this ONE of us will be able to say "I told you so"




(That will be me for sure)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

My husband said "What are you laughing at?" (Sitting here LOL). I told him - and HE started laughing too.
You are funny!!

GADS who knows with a FL jury though.

It Don't Mean A Thing (If it ain't got that swing)

Anything Goes

OH didn't see that last sentence!

A win or loss in FL means nothing I guess though, eh? I'll NEVER get over that other one, ever!!

A hollow victory, even if one of us wins.

If you lived nearby, I would take you to dinner, either way, and your wife too.

The hearing on Friday might be interesting?

NOT a convenient time for me (start 1:00AM), but I will try and be here with links to live streams and a running commentary.

FRIDAY, 29th JUNE 9:00AM EDST

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogal ... n-911-call

Someone posted this comparison of the yells heard on the phone calls, and Zimmerman's reinactment of them.

On the phone call tapes, they are stretched out ... HEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLP.... AAAAAAHHHHH HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLP... HEEEEEEEEELLLLLLP...
He just says in his re-enactman "Help - help - help me - help me." Wouldn't he remember how he gave those blood curdling screams at the scene, and duplicate them during his re-inactment -- IF he was the one, doing it?

Some are saying with hollow point bullets Trayvon couldn't have said "You got me" or something like that after taking a hollow point bullet to his chest.

I guess people can't help but wonder. Some own guns, some know all about hollow point bullets so they can't HELP but think. I had them in my gun, but didn't know a lot about them... except designed to kill! NRA told me I needed them because I had to STOP THEM - and had to wait till they were breaking into my probably disabled car ... giving proof that I was totally innocent... and that THEY were out to hurt me.

Seems like nit-picking but I think experts will do that at the trial, won't they?

Today's Hearing is covered on a separate thread

http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=370

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

George Zimmerman Legal Defence Site.

http://gzlegalcase.com/

Includes a link to donate to the Defence Fund
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/


I think George needs some more money...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

As far as the shouting help goes?

I haven't seen this point made... but it is a bit of a no-brainer.

OF COURSE IT'S GZ SCREAMING

GZ's account to police (and even Video re-enactment), came BEFORE he, or any of us, knew that there was screaming in the background of one 911 call. To actually find some evidence of it LATER is extremely powerful evidence.

Good science or research (including investigating crimes) should be about "a-priori hypotheses" that you then test by looking at evidence or doing tests and experiments etc. It is scientifically and mathematically considered very significant to test existing information or a hypothesis in this way.

The Crump/prosecution position is the opposite and VERY weak "a-posteriori" one.
Having got advanced access to 911 tapes (why?), Crump et al set out to ascribe the screams to TM AFTER knowledge of them. That is VERY weak. Any evaluation is from the outset biased.
Besides, the Crump team were a bit late, since LE had already obtained a statement from Tracy saying unequivocally the sounds were NOT his son.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... _blog.html

My head continues to spin and spin ...

I agree that it's strong evidence to know that GZ told about the screams and did the re-enactment before anyone knew screams were in the background of the 911 call. I wasn't aware that the re-enactment came independent of what was known later.

I just checked...

Serino was confronting GZ with 911 call and screaming on Feb 29th.

GZ did the re-enactment the day after the shooting. (Feb 27th).. so YES well before the 911 call was revealed to anybody.

He was taken into custody the night of the shooting (Feb 26th) and seems to have done numerous interviews with police before hearing the 911 call on Feb 29th

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

packy hi! R. hi! Hope you got some rest.

George knew at least one guy was there and heard it all - they spoke. I guess he also knew with ALL of that violent blood curdling screaming, I guess he would have to mention them, wouldn't he? Who could ignore them... ?

That gives weight to GZ's side of the case for sure. Thanks, Rumpole.

And hi back to you, Joni. I'm trying to follow the case with you, Katt, Rumpy, RT, and others so I'm glad to see all your posts here.

Hi packy girl. Love seeing your beautiful flowers - they sure do cheer ME up!!

Hi R. Hope you got some sleep after doing all that work for us this morning at 1 - 2 AM.
I would like to see a full re-run today while I do things around here. Do you know anywhere I can do that ... is that possible?
Crazy

I'd better get my first cup of coffee and a bite ... before I write here.

And even then ...

http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman- ... ories.html

George has some kind of history... very different from yours and mine, I think. Things like this that keep cropping up make me truly wonder - who he is?

I am not sure if he has emotional problems ...

Does one act differently from most if they have a daddy who was a Judge?
(Good grief! I knew of another parent who ALWAYS did that! Her name was Cindy Marie Anthony!)
And too - if they have a permit to carry a gun, and do?
Feeling powerful it would seem, though he is really is - what?

Anything Goes