____________________________________

Great point! Z gave his interviews long before he knew what witnesses saw and heard. Great point!!

Why was the Police Chief finally fired?

"John" changed his story. I am not liking that. What is going on with that?

Man, this is ugly, ugly, ugly!!

Hi Jane, I just put myself in the parents shoes for about 5 minutes ...

Sorry I didn't have "enough time" to make my previous post - short. (Funny line eh?)

This whole tragedy could have been avoided if TM would have just gone home!!

(this is in direct rebuttal to the "if GZ would have stayed in his truck.")

Yes I have long thought that if most people simply stayed in bed... an awful lot of tragedies would be avoided.



Hmmm... on the other hand.... perhaps that might be offset by the increased birthrate..

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

June 22, 2012 - 9:46 am
I don’t think GZ’s credibility will never overcome the incredulous act of establishing an on-line website for soliciting defense funds from well-meaning, hard working folks and then diverting the use of those funds for his wife’s education. Geez-a-reez, what a fraudulent act. This coupled with his lying to the court (are they prosecuting him for perjury) with respect to his ability to procure counsel is the lowest of low.
Although this does not make him a murderer, it does show his (lack of) character and integrity.
I have followed this case on television and what I read here. I refuse to get obsessed about it because it happened in Florida and we ALL know about Florida juries………………
_____________________________________________
Are these statements true about using the Legal Fund for schooling? Didn't Z's lawyer set that new fund up - for himself? Friend sent me this. I really don't know ...

No Joni... I have seen posts from many contributors to the fund.. no fraud.. it was clearly stated that it was for GZ expenses etc as well as defence fund.... all the contributors that I have seen comment have gone on to give more money.

--------------------------
George Zimmerman Legal Defence Site.

http://gzlegalcase.com/

Includes a link to donate to the Defence Fund
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/
-------------------------

Besides... piddling matters like defence fund will not be part of a murder trial...

It gets posters all agitated... they drip with envy often.. but it's irrelevant to the case.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Summarry of where things are ..from The Last Refuge - sundancecracker

Now that George Zimmerman’s own account is available for review, in his own words, his specific story no longer needs speculation as to construct, only credibility. Now it is just a matter of seeing if the foresensics, witness statements and physical evidence align with his statements.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears all the evidence supports Zimmerman sans DeeDee. It appears the DeeDee narrative is the only contradiction to all of Zimmerman’s statements.

Over 5 hours questioning on the night of the 26th, another time during the walkthrough re-enactment on the 27th, and then again back at the police department on the night of the 27th for more recorded questioning. All statements consistent including the passing of a Voice Stress Lie Detector Test.

...read more (and comments)
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... more-42470

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I detected a very slight change in momentum from just a few of the lynch mob yesterday... "perhaps it was Manslaughter rather than Murder"... but then somebody suggested that it would be "Aggravated Manslaughter of a child (under 18)" and so warrant a Life sentence... so the mob is back on track now

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Repost from my home forum:

George Zimmerman:

* Called the police and was the first person to involve them that night
* Screamed for help prior to using his fire arm for roughly a minute
* Fired one shot, and only one shot
* Had injuries all around the front and back of his head, including a broken nose
* Has an eyewitness who saw TM on top of him moments before the shot, and at least initially felt that he saw TM raining blows down on GZ. Which is exactly what GZ describes and described before he was aware of that witness.
* Immediately admitted to firing the shot and immediately surrendered to police upon their arrival
* Gave the police any and all interviews, reenactments, follow up question sessions, that they requested of him and did them all without an attorney present
* Had a month + between the shooting and being charged where he could have legally fled the country, but not only did not do that, but maintained constant contact with the police
* Agreed to meet with Da La Rionda and Corey's office as we hear in one of the mp3s released yesterday. Was attempting to make contact with them to cooperate with them in the same way he had been with SPD at the time he was charged. * * Was willing to drive to Jacksonville to answer their questions
* Had previously called the SPD numerous times regarding suspicious people or actual known burglars, and had never attempted to detain said persons on any previous occasion. Had even expressed a desire to avoid direct contact with them
* Mentored 2 black male teenagers at his own cost when program money evaporated
* Offered a place to stay to Anthony Woodson, a black man who had fallen on hard times, who had gone to jr. high with him years earlier
* Helped promote justice and accountability in the unprovoked assault of a black male homeless man, Sherman Ware, at the hands of an SPD officer's white son[/list]


Now, you can come at me with a lot of stuff about oh hey, this little inconsistency or difference in word choice here in this statement as compared to this other one... or hey, he might've bullied an Arab coworker, or hey there was some domestic issue with his ex-gf etc...

you might even convince me that he does lie more than the average person, you might even convince me that he might've had other options than shooting the gun at that point... or that his injuries weren't all that bad. Let's grant all of that for a moment.

To me the list of things I gave is still enough, to create a damned, DAMNED good reasonable doubt in anyone's mind that hey... there's at least a good chance that something very close to what he says happened, did happen, or at the very least that he honestly did shoot while in legitimate fear for his life, and that subjecting this man to years and years in prison is not appropriate. The risk that we'd be doing that to an innocent man is too great int his case.

I find anyone who can look at all the evidence and still feel comfortable with the idea of putting this man into prison for decades, maybe even life, to be a morally repugnant individual who would be more at home during the Salem witch trials or Spanish Inquisition.

And you'll notice that pro-GZ people are still saying what we've been saying since March... which is that there is a lot of evidence here that he shot in legitimate self-defense. There's more evidence of it now than ever.

The anti-GZ people on the other hand, have undergone a stark, dramatic change in what they're debating now vs. then. I'd call it goal post moving. Examples:

Anti-GZ people previously were adamant that he said "fucking coons" this line of thought has now been almost completely abandoned.
Anti-GZ people were previously adamant that GZ had sustained no injuries, and that there was no fight which took place. They latched onto the low quality PD video as evidence of this. They have now had to resort to "well okay there were injuries but they aren't that bad."
Anti-GZ people were previously adamant that TM was the one screaming, not GZ. We are now at a point where most of them seem to acknowledge it was GZ screaming, even if only by their utter lack of any sort of fight on that point any longer. Some outright acknowledge it verbally.
Anti-GZ people used to argue that TM was never on top of GZ, or that at least GZ definitely must've started it, then maybe he was losing the fight... but he totally must've started it, nevermind there has never been any evidence of that. And that TM was just defending himself. Now they sort of argue that well, maybe GZ didn't start it but he totally didn't need to use the gun, that was overkill. His wounds weren't that bad and he should've fought back harder.
Anti-GZ people are now mostly reduced to nitpicking, latching onto supposed inconsistencies throughout SEVEN or so statements to police, which are well within normal human memory drift expected range. They are now latching onto things like basically pretending that because GZ said TM made some effort to cover his mouth at some point, that must mean GZ is saying this was something TM was attempting to do throughout the entire duration of the fight, and that his efforts to do so must've been 100% successful and this should reflect in what we're hearing with the screams.

In other words, what I'm saying is... haven't you anti-GZ people been proven wrong on this enough times now that you should at least have enough humility to admit that sending this man to prison for years or decades based on what we know, cannot in any moral way be felt good about or done with confidence?


Awarded by Rumpole

Think I feel my post moving finger twitching... this lot is going to Daily Discourse.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Twitching?

Something is bothering me - in general. (There ARE some things that bother me about this case...)

I am much older than George and haven't ever had ONE brush with the law. Not a one, and I spent my life in the
music world. One could get in trouble there, easily if they wanted ... it was all there.

George is in his 20's, and has now had 4 brushes with the law. Three previous ones, and this one.

Do many people have 3 brushes with the law, and get basically a slap on the wrist for each? I think the resolution of them was noteven normal probation, but a "Pre Trial Diversion Program" which I think is lesser. That's probably then better for one's record?
WHO REALLY IS George Zimmerman?

1. Mother worked for the Courts.
2. Dad retired Magistrate Judge.
I think that's some pretty good connections. Wish I had them.

Can one get a gun if they have 3 "Pre Trial Diversion Programs" that they had to complete in their past? Is that some kind of "record"?

OK ... ready, aim, fire!! I have to leave but will return ... unless banned!!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Don't rush to judgement.

We've Only Just Begun

I can't WAIT till this is over! Can't wait!!

Need or

I think his brushes with the law were so incredibly minor that anything more than what happened to him would've been grossly out of proportion to the "crime"

if you listen to how he describes that brush with the beverage officer, it's amazing to me anything happened to him AT ALL. The commander of the officers on scene was ready to send him home with no punishment, the d-bag officer himself insisted on GZ facing punishmnent.

That officer was not identifiable as an officer in any way. GZ thought his friend was being assaulted and tried to defend him.

And this is from a 32 year old man who has never had ANY sort of brush with the law, not even the most minor imaginable... (me) I was even incredibly well behaved as a teen.

I have referenced several Blogs and comments from "The Conservative Tree House" (The Last Refuge)

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

There seems to be a lot of well reasoned analysis and posting over there.

Just to dispel claims of "Right Wing Bias"... I also find similarly well reasoned work at "Talk Left"

Zimmerman Tapes: Variations Versus Differences
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 01:31:56 PM EST

Excerpts....

If George Zimmerman told the exact same story over the course of days, people would say it was rehearsed and false. Variations are to be expected, human memory is not like a video recorder, it changes over time.

There may be many variations in George Zimmerman's multiple accounts, but which, if any, amount to a significant dissimilarity that rises to a difference over a variation, and warrants someone concluding the essential elements of his version are not true?

My opinion: This is self-defense. Zimmerman was not the aggressor, he did nothing to provoke Trayvon Martin’s beating him, breaking his nose and slamming his head into concrete. He had every right to respond with deadly force to stop Trayvon’s physical attack on him and to prevent Trayvon from getting control of his weapon.

If the state has no evidence George initiated the verbal confrontation, then the affidavit for probable cause for second degree murder contained a lie. The affiants swore Zimmeman confronted Trayvon and a stuggle ensued. But not a single witness statement says Zimmerman verbally confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman, and even Dee Dee, say Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first, asking why Zimmerman was following him. If the state had no evidence Zimmerman confronted Trayvon before the struggle ensued, that should be dealt with by the Court.

There is no animus or hatred or ill-will in this case. There was a guy hanging out in the rain for no apparent reason, looking at houses, including one that had recently been the subject of a break-in, in a neighborhood in which there had been several recent break-ins. Zimmerman considered and discounted other possibilities – such as that the guy was not wearing workout clothes or exercising. He knew the guy didn't live at the house where he was standing. He could not figure why he wouldn’t try to get out of the rain. He did what Sanford Police told citizens to do: He called the non-emergency number to report him.

I see variations, but I see no significant dissimilarities. I see nothing that amounts to a contradiction or a difference. I see a valid claim of self-defense.

More at link
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/22/143156/459

Jeralyn E. Merritt is criminal defense attorney in Denver representing persons accused of serious federal and state offenses. She served as one of the principal trial lawyers for Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City Bombing Case.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I truly don't know what happened that night. Some things about Z. make me wonder who he really is, though.
I think we know pretty much who Trayvon was, the good and the bad.

WHO IS Z.?
Is he a mature, average 29 year old?
Is he what he proports to be?
Does he have a private agenda?
Is he honest?
Are his possible frustrations - motivating him?
(We KNOW he wants so badly to really be IN L.E. and eventually
be a Judge like his father, he said.)

I have moved the chat posts again

I would like to keep this thread on topic... if possible

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have just been reading the latest at "Lynch Mob Central"

It seems to me that a lot of the case "analysis" is in the style of Nancy Grace!

Snippets of information introduced as "BOMBSHELLS!"

As with NG.. there is no substance. Often not even any truth to what is being offered.... but again as with NG Bombshells, once these things are uttered.. they are taken as fact and even quoted as such later on.

NG managed to insert a lot of false information into the Casey Anthony case... her legacy is perhaps to have created a whole gaggle of people in her image.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

We do not know precisely what the prosecution narrative is, but generally it seems to be that GZ persued TM (hunted him down) and shot him. If TM fought at all it was in fear of his life after this stranger came after him.
But....
It is not disputed that GZ phoned NEN and reported TM... merely observed him for at least the initial period. Stayed on the phone with NEN attempting to give them directions for LE to find him, and the person he was observing. GZ stayed on the phone even after getting out of his truck.
It makes NO SENSE that GZ.. having decided to chase down (and shoot) somebody, would first phone the cops??
And keep them on the phone while he hunted down his victim?
And actually attack, expecting the cops to be minutes or seconds away?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

*
There's nothing wrong with a wanna-be hero but for the life of me I just don't see George as a menacing son-of-a-gun looking for trouble. I think he wanted to do something a little heroic when he became suspicious of this hooded fellow in the dark, but I don't really think he felt competent to do anything about it but call for help. I know George is no saint, but I also just don't see him as a hard-core killer.

Well, maybe the bond hearing on Friday will give us a little more to discuss.

_________________
­
"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." Leviticus 19:15

Okay, I guess I will weigh in here..I don't think GZ is a hard core killer, but I also don't think he should have been packing a gun and confronting/following anyone, regardless of their supposed intent. He is not a police officer trained in firearms and an accident was bound to happen and it did. In my opinion he should have stood back and waited for the police to arrive. He could have kept an eye on TM until then.