Judge will decide on application overnight... lets hope sanity prevails.

I don't see the point in an evaluation to test if OP knew right from wrong... we KNOW the answer already?

And Nel needs a slap anyway

The good news is...... this will be an indication of how Judge Masipa is viewing things.... will she fall for the confused histrionics from Nel... his tendency to impose his own interpretation on what witnesses actually say (after he badgers them).... and then argue as if it is a fact. This is like a sneak preview of the case overall

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

What are your expectations as to how much longer this looooooooooooon runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning trial will last, including the time for the judge to deliberate Rumpy?

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Bit of an unusual gamble going on here by Nel, which suggests to me that he's more concerned about the strength of the states version than he's letting on.

He seems quite desperate to get a second opinion on OP's psychological state at the time of the shooting, This would suggest that he's more than a little concerned that it may be accepted OP was in a higher state of anxiety than would normally be expected when faced with a potential intruder. It's as if he wants any chance of Judge Masipa drawing her own conclusions to be removed. If the state's case was strong enough an anxiety disorder shouldn't be relevant, as their claim is that OP had a huge row and stalked after Reeva. The emotions expressed with these actions would be anger and rage rather than anxiety.

When Nel read the previous case law to Judge Masipa, he didn't do himself many favours when he indicated that he must know the law well because he was the one involved in the case. In that trial he was trying to stop his client from being referred for psychologist assessment, and lost the argument. If he loses this argument as well, all it proves is that he didn't learn his lesson the first time.

Yes Steve... it does seem like desperation on NEL'S part to me as well.

His questioning of Dr Vorster last night included his asking, her unequivocal reply, that this GAD might be a factor ONLY if the Court accepts OP's "version". Nel should have no worries IF he believes that his version will prevail. What Nel needs is a "second opinion" that refutes Vorster's diagnosis... and my guess is that any REPUTABLE shrink would only confirm it. But with his own Expert Psychologist I guess Nel could try and include GAD building up to the imagined "argument"... but IMO the State version would look even weaker and speculative and "clutching at straws"

A 30 day committal and psychiatric evaluation seem EXTREME and excessive (in this case)... and Vorster has already stated clearly that OP DID know the difference between "Right" and "Wrong"... and she is the sort of person who would take part in such an evaluation. The Court already has her expert psychiatric assessment. Surely a 30 day committal is NOT something that a court would order lightly on a citizen? In this case on a whim and a hissy fit from Nel? The outcome is KNOWN with some certainty. in this case. OP is FIT to stand trial... even Nel knows that?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I agree with you Steve - it is a gamble, he also has his much reported reputation to think about if he ends up with egg all over his face. He has been involved in some of SA's most famous trials, one in particular received a lot of publicity in South Africa itself, less worldwide perhaps.

He was the one who started this insanity thing, and I thought at the time, he should have left it alone - I still think so.

I don't know, but I cannot think a court would agree to a 30 day committal - then again, nothing about this trial should surprise us.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Depends now on this daft psychiatric Nel thing? Obviously if that is granted we have a Month's sabbatical. Then pick up again exactly where we are today

If Roux finishes today (or early tomorrow) Then I HOPE the Judge gives these "work-shy" lawyers no more than the rest of the week and the weekend to prepare their closing statement. I guess we can write off Most of next week with each side presenting their final thing.

So... Judge to deliberate starting 26th May?

I don't see it as a difficult case to decide. Could see a result by 2nd June?

IF the Judge accepts OP's version... then MOST of what was presented in court was irrelevant nonsense. She does not need to worry about ballistics, and blood spatter and time line and such. MOST of her deliberation will be in regard OP's mental state at the time the shots were fired... Only the Defence has addressed that at all.... No wonder Nel is worried.... he has NOT presented any evidence in regard the important aspects of this case... what a dope!!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It's a laugh when Nel gets all butt-hurt because people have only considered OP's "version" and NOT the "State Version".... I mean........ WHAT friggin version? All Nel has presented is a short scenario based on Pure Speculation. It would barely rate as a "what if" post at a True Gossip Forum!

Why would anybody seriously consider such a vague guess at what happened?... not supported by any evidence, in fact IMPOSSIBLE in regards shots at 3:17. OP has a perfectly reasonable "version" that IS supported by evidence... in fact ALL the State evidence and testimony, as well as the defence evidence. The State has presented NOTHING that refutes OP's version at all. They have certainly proved NOTHING beyond reasonable doubt.

Why would people waste their time working and adapting their evidence, and trying to make if "fit" the State's version? That is surely Nel's job. He has not done much of that himself... it's a bit rich that he now stamps his little foot and demands that people take his "version" seriously.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I really haven't a clue what the state's version is, and I'm not convinced they've decided yet either.

Surely there's never been a previous high profile case that's proceeded this far without the prosecution even attempting to qualify their claims.

They've had opportunity to provide tests to back up their version, but have elected to do virtually nothing apart from analyse the toilet door, and use the crime scene photo's. Well, no shit Mr Nel, there were indeed four shots fired through a toilet door - spot on - and you've caught the guy that did the shooting. Now, about the rest of your story...

Nel did specify a "State's Case" after his cross examination of OP. It was a just a brief sentence or two...

Summarised n The Daily Mail (I copied to RT reference thread)
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=1211&start=20#p73733


The State Case

The prosecutor says he believes the court will make the following findings:

• That Reeva ate within two hours of Pistorius having shot and killed her
  
• That while Reeva was awake and eating, there was argument which was heard by neighbour Van der Merwe
  
• Witnesses Johnson, Burger and Stipps heard Reeva's "blood curdling" screams when she escaped from Pistorius
  
• Pistorius fired four shots through the door knowing it was her
  
• Pistorius armed himself with the sole purpose of shooting Reeva

The athlete denies all of these.


The State also released...

The State's response to the request for further particulars
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=1211&start=20#p74227

IMO Nel has proved NONE of the bullet points... not a little bit, and certainly not beyond reasonable doubt.

So I think the judge(s) should get beyond the "State Version" very soon after commencing deliberations. They do not have to waste time over gastric emptying, and ballistics, and blood spatter, and which wound came when, and if Reeva could scream in the split second after the first shot, but before the last, etc etc etc.... all of that (and more) is left by the wayside and OP's "version" is what is left. As I have said repeatedly there is STILL plenty to debate about OP's actions... but the State (Nel) has not bothered to present any evidence (or discussion) about such issues. It seems that the Defence has presented such evidence throughout... mentioning OP's fear of crime, coupled with his vulnerability. Dr Vorster was a great expert witness in regards those matters. If Nel was any good at his job he would have seen some sort of testimony along those lines coming. It is a bit "rich" for him to claim that this is a "last minute" thing. I am just a casual observer and I assumed from the outset (and posted) that OP would be putting forward his anxiety about intruders and his "special" vulnerability as a double amputee. I did not know it would be Dr Vorster (psychiatrist) of course... but I did expect some sort of psychologist. It would have made sense if Nel had presented a psychologist of his own... but he could NOT do that because the State's case is that OP's version is lies... and so they painted themselves into a corner in regard not being able to present a psychologist to speak to OP's mental state... justification or otherwise of his belief there was an intruder and his reaction to that perceived threat. I have said all along that the State over charged... wasted the entire trial trying to disprove OP's version... and no time spent or evidence presented in regards OP's version (assumed to be true)

Lets hope that Judge Masipa is familiar with winnowing to remove the chaff.

Nel has presented mostly chaff... when that is winnowed (blown away) during the Judges deliberations, what remains will be the few kernels of evidence. IMO a fairly simple case when it comes down to it.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Nel seems to specialise in "Storms in a tea cup"

TEA and tea-breaks kinda guy?


They don't call him "Tea-break Nel" for nothing

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The irony is rich.... posters disagreeing with Dr Vorster's diagnosis

Yeah, right... they know better that a trained and highly respected and experienced psychiatrist, who has actually interviewed and assessed the "patient"
They claim she does not have enough info to go on.. and yet the same people "diagnose" "Sociopath" for every defendant based on scant news reports.

In this case the same people already diagnosed OP as having all manner of anger and abuse issues... based on a very selective and a tiny percentage of Text messages... parsed into small phrases and words and spun such that in their opinion they revealed significant indicators of deep-seated psychological problems in OP.

Why bother with psychiatrists? Just ask the experts... the posting Mob at True Gossip Forums

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

You know before listening to the Judge, I honestly sat watching thinking to myself 'this trial will continue' but to my utter surprise he will be sent for evaluation.

I'm astounded - such evaluations should be done before the trial starts.

I'm stuck for words to be honest.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Judge Masipa stressed that the delay was necessary .. Justice served is more important than "inconvenience" to anybody.... but I wonder if Justice has been served in this case.... the short days, early tea-breaks, various short breaks and a complete 2 weeks+ vacation ... and now this thing... they can't even organise it to START until after next Tuesday?????? Why? Surely it can be organised quicker than that? And I wonder how long it will take? Will the psychiatrists involved need breaks too

This is all a bit of a farce... dragging out a relatively simple case.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I predict that the Shrinks will all "stick together".. Op will be diagnosed as having some sort of serious anxiety disorder. Shrinks are in the business of finding "Disorders" where us lay people would see just normal variation.

I am SURE OP will not be seen as not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident though... so the trial will procede after this assessment.

I FAIL to see how Nel gains by this? What was just the opinion of one defence witness (Vorster) that supported OP's version, and explained why he especially might react that way to a perceived intruder.. now Nel will have an "Official" diagnosis bolstering Vorster's testimony.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Well Rumpy I have to agree with you, we've said it before this case should never have dragged on like this.

I feel sorry for Oscar Pistorius actually, and yes of course, a delay is better than reaching the wrong verdict, so the judge was right, now we have to see if these two lawyers can do the necessary as promised by next Tuesday (doubts).

By any definition, it will be interesting to see the findings of the shrinks in this case, I think any of us in similar circumstances could have 'temporarily' lost it, but we would know right from wrong as I'm certain he did.

It's annoying me this case now.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I know a few people in the"Shrink business" (psychologists and psychiatrists) and EVERYBODY that visits as a "patient" comes away with a "syndrome" or a "disorder" etc. It's the business that they are in
I have NEVER heard of anybody visiting a shrink and being sent away and told they are completely normal... NEVER!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

And what did I tell you all as SOON as Vorster took the stand?

It ALWAYS "ends in tears" when shrinks become involved in a court case!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light