My Comment at TL.....

Even the State ear witnesses support OP's version broadly. The only real discrepancy is in their INTERPRETATION of the "screams" that they heard as being made by a woman and not a man (OP himself) as OP's "version" asserts.
It really is NOT a big issue that witnesses can make errors in perception. It is a common human phenomena. Optical illusions provide a good example of how completely human perception can be "fooled", even when the person KNOWS he is perceiving something false. It is not a stretch at all that the two couples who are the only witnesses who claim "a woman screaming" are mistaken. In fact the evidence as a whole sets a time line where it is impossible that it was Reeva screaming at the time screams were heard by ALL witnesses, because she was incapable of screaming at those times (she was dead).
Nel's limp and lacklustre cross examination of the Defense ear witnesses may well indicate that he is "throwing in the towel" on the impossible time line that the State has proposed, with gunshots occurring just after 3:17am. That makes no sense at all. It would be impossible in the light of all that is known to have had to occurred following the gunshots.

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It was a g-r-e-a-t day for Pistorius with the Stander's testimony. It showed the level of how freaked out Oscar was. That would not happen through anybody's ability to fake that kind of emotion. When you factor in all the many other things I pointed out in my multi-post, it doesn't even pass the laugh test that he would kill her due to a brain snap.

That would be like if you have a knife, you look at your arm, you say "I hate this arm". You cut it off. And then immediately say, "oh my G-O-D, what did I do?" Yeah right.

I have always maintained in any circumstances that those neighbors closest to the house would have heard the 'best' sounds it makes more sense to me. Who's to know that the noises over and above the gunshots heard by the distant neighbours were not from some other source, I've wondered about this.

I agree that what we are hearing now supports OPs version.

I dislike when 'witnesses' suddenly show up after a story has been on the news at a bail hearing - whether it's SA or elsewhere.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead.

I do actually think the Burger-Johnson heard relevant stuff... albeit faint in the distance, so OK to use them, but a sign of desperation that Prosecution do not have closer witnesses. Also, as mentioned above, the fact that the Prosecution are using both family members to bolster what is really the same evidence from husband and wife is another sign of deperation and shortage of witnesses. What they heard coincides with times of Stipps (and OP) so they probably did hear OP's wails and the bat noises..... but were asleep at the time of gunshots. There is of course no way they could be sure it was a woman and not a man, and "blood curdling" etc... was added by Burger during the trial... exactly what she means by that is undefined. and there is no way she could have heard nuances in a scream (wail) over that distance.
I guess there were "political" pressure to charge premeditated Murder... but it was unprovable from the outset. Nel is not daft ... he must know this.... and so I find his nasty behaviour in court (especially towards OP) all the more despicable.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Well this is another bone of contention here with me. Yes, you are quite correct about those witnesses, and yes they heard something. What i particularly disliked about their evidence which to me they added on the back of what they actually did hear, was their addition imo for effect, after the news coverage in 2013 was those awful "blood curdling" cries. I do not believe that on the night in question, even if they had come forward to the police that night, within an hour of what they heard, do I think they would have uttered that phrase I just don't believe them.

I think the way OP has been treated by the court and by, in particular, the SA media is nothing short of appalling

IF this judge is unbiased as she should be, OP should be a free man.

I don't know if you heard about comments reputedly made to Kim Myers Reeva's friend by OP, if true he could be charged with intimidation. I think he is going through a lot.

His country were very proud of him when he was winning medals!

Anyone would think he has been accused of horrendous serial killings!

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

This trial should have finished weeks ago. I can guarantee if it was a UK trial 2 weeks 3 max.

I blame both Nel and Roux for shoddy Jurisprudence.

Remember too it is costing OP and his family a fortune in legal fees! If I was OP I would ask for a huge rebate.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

What's this all about?


http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... -sinister/

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Friend Of Reeva Steenkamp Says Accused Murderer Made ‘Extremely Disturbing’ & ‘Sinister’ Snipe At Her — Inside The Courtroom

Kim Myers, a friend of the late Reeva Steenkamp, claims that Oscar Pistorius fired off a “sinister” remark in her direction during a break at South Africa‘s Pretoria court in Tuesday’s proceedings, asking her, “How can you sleep at night?”

The double-amputee runner refuted the claims, as he said he hadn’t addressed Myers, or any of her relatives on hand for the his ongoing murder trial, in weeks.

Attorney Ian Levitt said that his client was “shocked” by the statement, which was made in an “extremely disturbing” manner.

“It’s important to confirm this,” Levitt told the AP. “It was in front of witnesses — journalists have witnessed this.”

The lawyer said that while he lodged a complaint to South Africa’s National Prosecuting Authority, authorities from the organization said they would not follow up on the incident.

The 27-year-old runner’s lawyer said that Pistorius “denies that he said it.”

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Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.

It's Tabloid media picking up on crap rather than substance.

It was mentioned in the Talk Left article I posted just a few posts back

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2014/5/6/ ... is-Version

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have been thinking about this trial this morning.

I can honestly say that between breaks in court time, long weekends, 2 weeks off time. Prosecution and defence not being ready for witnesses, both sides despite the passage of more than a year to prepare their respective cases, yet still they are not ready.

This whole thing makes me so glad that I do not live in SA

I don't think I have ever seen a case conducted in such a manner ever!

If this is an example of South Africa's best, I despair of anyone who falls foul of the law, who is either poor, or modestly well off

This despite time off for voting and a public holiday.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead.

(I'll move your other post to "Upgrade" thread... and reply)

Dopey men digging holes cut through phone cables yesterday, so I have been without interwebs for a day.

I did manage to listen to most of trial on iphone, but that was hard enough I did not even try and get t to RT.

I will catch up and update trial thread... and be here tonight provided no more phone line get severed

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

No wonder I had trouble getting a stable live feed of the trial o iphone... there seems to have been "technical difficulties" and even the replays are a bit iffy!

No matter... the "Dail Maverick" always gives a good summary.

I post a link at the end of every day.... good summary for those not watching live

Daily Maverick - Pistorius Trial: Week Seven, Day Three
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=1210&p=74589#p74588

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Ha.... I see from the State "experts" and Nellie were WRONG about OP using "Black Talon" bullets.



I suspect that Nel claimed they were "Black Talon" just because the name sound bad

There never was anything "evil" about them... they are no longer available simply because they are no longer manufactured as "black talon" but have been replaced by similar products.

And all this time the "Mob" has been running with that notion... declaring OP extra bad for using "Devil's bullets"

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

A point occurs to me... I am sure I have posted it before, but I'll repeat it while I think of it.

Nel is yet to explain the first set of bangs that the Stipps heard. He WILL have to offer some sort of explanation, eventually. Stipps is a key witness (for both sides).

WHATEVER explanation Nel offers, no matter how persuasive (or limp) he will DEFEAT his own case!!!

Whether Nel tries to twist like a gossip forum poster and say somehow some bat strikes were first, or claim that it was slamming doors, or steel bath panel or broken tiles... it matters NOT!!! Whatever he contends he will be conceding that "something" CAN make bangs that sounds like gunshots, as witnessed by Stipps (who claims gun shot experience). So Nel will be conceding that people's perceptions can be WRONG.. even his "star" witness... so certainly all the others who are perhaps less credible... especially the Burgers (so far away and contaminated by reports BEFORE making any statement). Once Nel conceds that witness perceptions can be wrong, then there is no way he can rely on any witness perception totally (beyond reasonable doubt). I opens the door wide, and itself provides "proof" that the Defence contentions about bat bangs (at 3:17) and even the screams being OP.

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Also.... a VERY important point that Roux made last night, but I am not sure it was stressed enough to the Judge...

Nel's cross examination of Prof Lundgren included his own "Fuzzy maths" done by way of an ad-lib brain fart I imagine

Nel "put it to" Prof Lundgren that there was 200ml of food in Reeva's stomach at autopsy, and quoted the claim that after 4 hours only 10% of food remains, soooooooooo.... that means that if she ate 4 hours prior then she must have eaten 2 litres of food solids.

That is silly enough, but Nel did not stop digging at that point... he was in "stomach content calc mode"... he worked out that had the meal been after 7PM then Reeva must have eaten 5L of food

ALL Nel proved is how stupid it is to use undigested food as a precise measure of anything!!!! And THAT is what the defence have been trying to tell him all along.

The point that Roux tried to make on re-examination was that, the State contention of a meal at 1AM is subject to the same nonsense extrapolation... since digestion continues after death (Porf Saayman's evidence) and Reeva's body was not refrigerated (to slow that down at least) untill 11:45 AM... then there was 11 hours + of digestion up until Saayman's autopsy, where he found 200ml of food. So by Nel logic Reeva ate 5L food at 1 AM.... I presume then Nel also contends that if she had eaten when OP says... she would have eaten more than 10 L of food.....

Maybe a whole Ox.... with fries

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I get the food thing too, you know I have to just hope that OP definitely is innocent, and that if he is (I think so) the judge sets him free, because otherwise if you take into consideration all that has gone these past weeks - this will have to be one of SA's other great travesties of justice.

I would imagine too, the family of OP are worried to death, not to mention OP.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I think this trial is a "travesty" of sorts... but if OP is set free it will go some way to restoring faith in the SA justice system. OP has gone through what amounts to torture and the people doing it (IMO) know that they are pushing a fantasy "version" that they have no evidence to back up.

They still all need a lesson in getting on with things ... an injection of "work ethic".

And... the SA police need to have a rethink on basic investigation of a crime scene

I think Nel should be tried for being a "premeditated nasty shit" ... but I don't think that will happen.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Nel needs a break... he says to set up a demo before he cross examines Wolmarans....

I think they have stopped even pretending to be trying to stop wasting time

I hope Nel has asked the Judge about what he is setting up.... this trial is enough of a Circus already without Nel performing some sort of act

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have lost the plot a little... I realy do not see why some of these details are worth arguing? So what? The CRITICAL point is whether OP shot KNOWING Reeva was behind the door.... precise ballistics don't necessarily address that?

I cant really see why there is an issue over last meal... except that The prosecution should NOT be allowed to get away with estimating time of last meal using undigested stomach contents...

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It's disturbing that prosecutors world wide accuse self defense defendants of using "killer" bullets when they are the same as used by local police!

Oscar Pistorius has SOLD the villa
May 08, 2014 17:17
By Anthony Bond

Oscar Pistorius has sold the villa where he killed his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp , it emerged today.

The 27-year-old athlete is selling his home in the South African capital Pretoria to help fund his legal bills.

During the Paralympian's trial today, his lawyer Brian Webber said an offer to buy the house had been accepted.

Mr Webber - who did not reveal who was buying the house - said the sale was currently being processed, Mail Online reported.

It is not known how much the large home, which is in a gated community, is being sold for. However, Pistorius had it valued for about £265,000 last year.

....more at link
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... te-3514090

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light