I am also a bit bamboozled by the fact that it is or was Mrs. Stipps' hand which is holding back the curtains to have the photo taken, she admits she was in the room with the photographer - presumably a police photographer - I have never known of a case where witnesses were having to do this, just to prove what she would have seen from her bedroom window - but perhaps this is how it's done in SA.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Well, in answer to that, I'm a very strong willed, perhaps stubborn person, no lawyer - don't care what his reputation is would be able to get me to say I was 100% sure about anything. I'd have to say that from my own personal perspective, I heard or saw what I heard or saw - nothing more, nothing less.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

As far as the phones or the sims are concerned. They found 2 and that doesn't suprise me at all, because of lot of men, indeed women too, if they're single will have a separate phone that they'll text or call lovers on, and keep their 'real' number and phone for business, family etc. OP being a sportsman would fall into that category.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

The picture emerging from the conversations taken from the cellphones, is of a couple who were (IMO) in trouble, but nevertheless, there was more than enough on the phones of just normal loving conversations or texts between the two.

So, I suppose you can be picky as to what you decide is evidence of a poor relationship, indeed, that's what you would be looking for if you were a prosecution witness isn't it?

I think there is little doubt that OP was a bit narcissistic and jealous though, taking all other things aside, that's my gut feeling - but Reeva didn't take it as she answered back.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I find it distasteful to hear somebody's private messages read by others.

It makes me cringe to see/hear private messages viewed by anybody other than the two involved.

A grubby little man reading a woman's private messages does not sit well and Nel appears very grubby too to be egging him on and salivating over the contents.

When the dude says "90 % were loving messages" it indicates to me that they have strived to pick just the arguments. I think any relationship has arguments and even nastiness that looks bad when singled out.

I do not like this evidence at all. We are not (yet) hearing specific bad stuff... threats one way, harassment, or specific revelations about bad acts etc. I refuse to give ANY weight to a couple's private messages.

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I thought you would still be asleep. I absolutely agree with you. In between this case, I've been viewing another and this week, the same thing happened, but it was audible messages left on a woman's phone since the day she went missing and up until after her body was found, hubby on trial for her murder. I was in tears as some of these messages to her cell phone were played, then decided to fast forward and not listen because I just think it's such an invasion of privacy, even if we know the recipient was subsequently found dead.

I absolutely agree it's awful and I wish they didn't do it.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

If there is specific evidence... of course it's legit. But this is borderline at best... trying to show they had a less than loving relationship... but IMO they are being a bit sneaky if that is the point. The guy said 90% were loving messages.

Maybe they do have some specific info, or things that pin point times? I'd have to go along with that. But just a couple's private conversations, even when at odd with each other, makes me cringe

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I am more interested in Mrs Stipp's evidence regarding TIME.

Her 3:02 (on a clock 3 to 4 minutes fast) is at odds with other time points... whichever "side" you are on.

I am reluctant to disregard evidence simply because it does not fit my hypothesis.. I am critical when others do that, but I do question that time (lets call it 3:00) for the first set of bangs.

Coincidentally I got into the habit yesterday of typing "3:00" when I meant "3:10"

3:10 would make more sense for her evidence too.

She is at odds with her husband on this point. He heard bangs with time established by phone records at 3:17 and he also estimated the first set of bangs to be "10 minutes" before that... so at around 3:07. Of course there is wiggle room... so around 3:10 covers that... but NOT around 3:00. Whatever your hypothesis that time ("3:02") does not sit well?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Is P. getting white hair suddenly? I think this IS ENOUGH to give anyone white hair!
Was she was on the phone with a boyfriend maybe? IS THAT what that fight was about? An incoming call from a guy - Valentine's Day?

I'm still on the fence. I can't make up my mind. Will have to wait and try to catch up.

bump

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Morning/afternoon/evening.

Well what a day i've had nothing but constant interruptions, However, downstairs i was able to watch the trial on my Samsung tablet - my computer is upstairs which is the better option. Only thing I noticed is that the picture quality on my tablet is fantastic - this is the first time I've used it to stream.

Most of the case today has been about the loving messages between the couple, so I would rather not be involved in that, I like when these things are kept private, or at least between the lawyers and judge.

That's the Prosecution's case done and dusted they say, so from tomorrow onwards we should have the Defense case, and if they go according to tradition, the first witness should be Oscar Pistorius giving his side of events. I personally, think this may be a case where it would have been better if he said nothing, but I can also see from a defense point of view why they may wish to have him tell us what happened. I'll be looking closely at him and trying to 'read him'.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead.

Roux had to do the lovey dovey stuff.... just to put Nel's implication about arguing in some sort of context... FOUR arguments out of 1,700 convos

OP has to testify since his defence is "self defence"... he has to make that case.

people keep implying that Nel is brilliant, it is just not shown overtly. We will see him do good eventually?

I think he is absolutely hopeless.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Four "arguments" Total....out of 1,700 conversations
That is .2%



or....... 99.8% NOT ARGUING!!!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I just don't think he's brilliant either. If we look at some of the inane comments on the YouTube feedback which I've just been doing, it's quite a farce from some fanciful commentators living in their own world.

I read someone say that this is a trial being shown internationally, why did we therefore have to be bothered with all this Dutch stuff, when those giving evidence quite easily can speak English - well I have to say I sort of agree with that, althoough they are entitled to speak in Afrikaans, I would have thought in this case English would be the order of the day.

Star witness cross, will be so interesting.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I'm so far behind with the trial but trying to catch up here. Wondering if we will get to hear him scream.

Hi Packy

IF you can manage it.... Friday 3AM... be here (might be 2AM for you)

OP may testify then.

You really have missed NOTHING... that is how I would describe the prosecution case. The real Trial starts Friday.
Not sure if they would have actually tried recording OP screaming? They may have. That is fraught with danger as we saw and heard with GZ do a test yell for help. Impossible to replicate the emotional distress and so anything like the same voice.

I think we will hear of tests with women’s and men's voices actually done (or played back?) in OP's house and toilet.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

In South Africa, it is my understanding that the prosecution don't have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, they look as if they're going for premeditated to get a stiffer sentence, he on the other hand is trying to prove it was a tragic accident in order to get a lighter sentence. So I think the coming days will be more interesting than the past 3 weeks put together.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Been away from this for awhile (not on TV) but do I remember some neighbor hearing SCREAMS - BEFORE the shooting?
Would these be screams for her LIFE, or screams during a fight? AND if in a fight ... then no outsider in the bathroom.
HE will have a horrible time in prison if he gets convicted. Would someone like him be in general population or in a medical place?

Thank you Rump for the GREAT job you are doing, as usual! Top notch coverage!!! I think you are truly finding your calling. Work for a TV station? NY Times? lol