I don't understand that either.
There are quite a few languages in SA, but the principle two are Afrikaans and English. All of these people speak English well, so I have to say I find it frustrating having all these Afrikaans interpreters, meaning the witnesses in my opinion are spending way more time on the 'stand' than they have to, for the sake of their language when they can speak English. At least they took plenty of photos, at least that's what they've been saying by making references such as 'we won't go through all of them' A bit odd, considering what OP said.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Tonight's trial could well be worth the price of admission.





Van Staden has to front up with original photo file and camera card.

My guess is that there ARE photos not included in his 15 albums. Photos on camera that he did not use at all.

There is nothing SINISTER about that. Any person snapping photos (even a pro) takes the odd crap shot, (maybe not as bad as us amateurs... no photos of random floor or ceiling, no photos of his thumb), but it is inevitable that some shots don't work out.
BUT...... since Van Staden has denied any so adamantly, IF any turn up now it casts some doubt on his testimony generally. They may or may not show ANYTHING of any significance.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I agree with you entirely. I've spoken with two photographers - one an ex Connecticut police photographer, the other a full time professional photographer, both of them say sometimes they take several pictures before being happy with them, bowever, the difference between my two friends i.e. one being a retired police photographer is that he still had to submit all his photos.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I am liking all this cross by Barry Roux, I am beginning to see why he is a successful defense lawyer. He's chasing this photographer for everything he's produced. There is a great disturbance of a scene as R suggests, were the two men taking photos of the same things at the same timek!!

I find the following interesting, and not at all surprising.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/new-cu ... ity-status

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead.

It's hard work getting witnesses to answer. Clearly there were cops coming and going and they are trying to write the bad ones out of testimony.

Col Motha seems to have been taking a complete set of crime scene photos at same time and as the senior officer you would think he would have been the one giving evidence... except he was in disgrace for handling the gun with no gloves. Then there is Botha... they want him to vanish too. Also in the middle of crime scene photos Van Staden goes to take a few outside snaps and comes back.... perhaps sent away while stuff changed upstairs? Van Staden's photo show at least two people up there in the bathroom window.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes i agree with you Rumpole, he was sent out of the way, and perhaps things staged - there was no reason why some of that stuff at the bedside had to be moved, disturbed call it what you will.

There are at least 2 officers (not surprising for SA police force) who alrfeady had been shamed and disgraced, and one dropped from the case.

This is obviously what Roux knows and is why he's getting at Van Staden.

p.s. I've just gone to google and done a tour of Pretoria - it's a beautiful place, the scenery is gorgeous as are the buildings.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

The Oscar Pistorius murder trial Day 12
TimesLIVE, Tymon Smith, Graeme Hosken, Sapa, AFP and Reuters | 18 March, 2014 09:30

(A collection of reports from various sources)

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/0 ... ial-day-12

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

What I'm getting from people who live in SA this afternoon, is that to fire into a locked bathroom door, you have to have known why it was locked - apparently most people who live in SA hold by that.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

That seems a bit silly.

I think we are still trying to decide if OP is lying or not. I am still 50/50.

IMO anybody who has a more certain view either way are basing that on bias for or against OP.

So we are still waiting for the State to offer proof that OP KNEW Reeva was behind the door.

IF OP's version is not disproved then he could not have known one way or the other if the door was locked? How could he unless he went up to it and tried?... and risked being shot through it himself?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

yes well I'm the same way of thinking, he would only know that if he had tried, but from what I've been reading people in SA don't seem to believe it. When I went back to the other forum, one of the ex-pats mentioned the fact that why would she have locked the door, as she was there with just her boyfriend. I replied, well that's easy - it was a fairly new relationship, and even in my house, as habit I often went to the bathroom and locked the door, when there was only me and my husband there. So I didn't see that as evidence at all - I still don't.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

IMO it is really hard to prove/disprove either side, since no one was there but the two of them, and one is dead. The investigation seems really poor but that in and of itself does not prove/disprove guilty/not guilty. I still want to see cell and computer records too. Perhaps he was scared but imo he was negligent by firing into a closed (now we know locked) door.

Locking the toilet door may be no more than force of habit. Could be a psychological hang-up for all I know

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

As far as I am aware - no phone records have been mentioned yet. One would have to assume that in trials like this one, the SA police would have looked into landline phone useage as well as cellphone useage who was called and when and for how long - guess we won't know unless and until this type of evidence is discussed.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Berta.

If you or I fired into a toilet door without knowing for sure what was behind it it might well be beyond negligent.

But... in the context of South Africa with home invasion.. rape, torture, murder being common (for a while at least).. and feeling vulnerable as an amputee, and a little paranoid (which OP seems to be)... and in a panic... honestly believing that there was an intruder.... it is more excusable, perhaps.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Here is a new toilet sign - released in South Africa - this will be used immediately.



THIS DESERVES AN OSCAR

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Oscar Pistorius Day 12 Recap - More mistakes from law enforcement
Tuesday, March 18, 2014

Summary of yesterday

http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/03/osc ... -more.html

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Toilet door indicator should be a big seller in SA

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I haven't made up my mind yet. The fighting, screaming, the robber... I would imagine living as he must with no legs is difficult enough, even with all the comforts of home. BUT - - with all those harden criminals in prison... showers, etc. GOD only knows what life would be for him in prison. I have never seen an accused as UPSET as HE IS, and maybe that's why?

Hi Joni... welcome to the Pistorius case thread


As snippets are revealed by testimony, speculation about the events of the night of the shooting flares in the media, but back at Court little has changed overall.
We still have the initial question of "Is OP lying?" I am 50/50 on that still. I can see many people are surer than 50%, but "beyond reasonable doubt" requires a lot more than just "more than 50% convinced"
Anyway.... the initial burden on the State is to disprove OP's version and claim (in his mind) he was acting in self defense.

If State can disprove OP's claim... and the Judge regards that OP is lying.. then OP should be found guilty of Premeditated Murder (or SA equivalent) because in that case he most likely assaulted, and threatened and chased Reeva into the toilet, and shot 4 times knowing she was behind the door. Quite horrendous and deserving of a lengthy sentence (quite likely DP in some US States).

However... if the State fall short in THEIR BURDEN to disprove OP's claim, then the Judge has to accept that OP believed the whole "Intruder" scenario, genuinely. Any evaluation of crimes committed by OP will have to be evaluated from the point of view of there BEING an intruder, and how OP's actions stack up under SA law. I do think that had there in fact been an intruder, shot in the circumstances of this case, then the shooter, would never have been charged, and so a complete acquittal of OP is a possibility. If there is a guilty verdict on some lesser type of homicide, that in itself must validate/confirm that OP believed he was shooting at an intruder. A lesser charge should not be an option if the Judge believes that OP was shooting at the door KNOWING Reeva was behind it.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light