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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:58 pm 
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my guess... FWIW


They are hung up on SD on murder charge... but did not bother with SD for other charges and so find him Guilty.

I think this is the WRONG way to look at this case...As I mentioned... you can not view the other charges until you decide on main charge. If they had found that was SD... then the other charges, should not apply (IMO) because they stemmed from Dunn using legitimate force in the first instance, or not, as the case may be. but IMO you can not even consider the other charges in isolation of the first?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Allen Charge: The Danger of Deadlock: Coercion in the Courtroom
by Joseph J. Ward


Quote:
In an effort to prevent jury coercion by trial judges, the Florida Supreme Court crafted a jury instruction commonly referred to as an Allen charge that “allows a jury to continue deliberations, even after it has announced its inability to do so, where there is a reasonable basis to believe a verdict is possible, while cautioning jurors that they should not abandon their views just to get a verdict or to accommodate the majority.”8 The deadlock instruction is also referred to as a “dynamite charge” for its “ability to blow apart deadlock.”9

Florida Standard Jury Instruction (Crim.) 3.06 on jury deadlock evolved from the concerns about trial court interference with jury deliberations first voiced by the U.S. Supreme Court in Allen v. United States, 164 U.S. 492 (1896). In Allen, the Court held that a jury instruction asking the members of the jury to reconsider their initial conclusions was not unduly coercive such that a mistrial was required, stating:

While, undoubtedly, the verdict of the jury should represent the opinion of each individual juror, it by no means follows that opinions may not be changed by conference in the jury room. The very object of the jury system is to secure unanimity by a comparison of views, and by arguments among the jurors themselves . . . . It cannot be that each juror should go to the jury room with a blind determination that the verdict shall represent his opinion of the case at that moment, or that he should close his ears to the arguments of men who are equally honest and intelligent as himself.10

MORE: https://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn/jn ... DB005D62F6

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:59 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Thanks renewsit... from your link here is the "guts of" the Allen Charge...
The standard instruction that the Judge reads verbatim

Quote:
I know that all of you have worked hard to try to find a verdict in this case. It apparently has been impossible for you so far. Sometimes an early vote before discussion can make it hard to reach an agreement about the case later. The vote, not the discussion, might make it hard to see all sides of the case.

We are all aware that it is legally permissible for a jury to disagree. There are two things a jury can lawfully do: agree on a verdict or disagree on what the facts of the case may truly be.

There is nothing to disagree about on the law. The law is as I told you. If you have any disagreements about the law, I should clear them for you now. That should be my problem, not yours.

If you disagree over what you believe the evidence showed, then only you can resolve that conflict, if it is to be resolved.

[This last bit is key IMO]
I have only one request of you. By law, I cannot demand this of you, but I want you to go back into the jury room. Then, taking turns, tell each of the other jurors about any weakness of your own position. You should not interrupt each other or comment on each other’s views until each of you had a chance to talk. After you have done that, if you simply cannot reach a verdict, then return to the courtroom and I will declare this case mistried, and will discharge you with my sincere appreciation of your services.

You may now retire to continue with your deliberations.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Wasn't the jury supposed to work down from Murder 1? I am so confused. Cannot be guilty of M2 or Man, but guilty of the other charges?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:18 pm 
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I think there may have been a cock-up in jury instructions... and in the answer to the last question from the jury. The way I see it they do have to look at the 5 charges in order. FIRST they have to decide on SD and if Dunn used force legitimately. If so he can hardly be charged with the consequences of that. If SD does not apply there, only THEN can they decided whether it is murder 1 or 2 or manslaughter. They can also of course then decide on the other counts if the shots were not justified (for Dunn to save his own life as he perceived it)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 pm 
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As things stand... I think we will be back doing this trial again in a year or so.

Unless the decisions on the 4 counts is NOT guilty.. and I don't see that being the case

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:36 pm 
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I was watching CNN and I swear that commentator was instigating ANGER. Said People better be OUTRAGED. WTF? I swear MSM is manufacturing its own news now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:46 pm 
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It appears that "loud music" has become the "skittles and tea" of the Dunn hearing. What is it with lib-tards just glossing over the inconvenient facts?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:51 pm 
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Before this latest news broke.. I saw a tweet lamenting that loud music, skittles, and hoodies were not allowed in Florida... they missed iced tea (disguised as Watermelon drink). They also missed all the other facts and evidence about these and other cases :wall

I found the tweet... didn't think I would find it..... daft tweets are incoming by the 100's :slap


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:58 pm 
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:wall THANK YOU! That's what I do not get. Because its a fact he shot his gun. But the reasoning as to WHY starts with the first count charged! If agree was SD then it explains the other charges, IMHO :wall

I tell you another JMHO, because of the haters, it gets worse and worse for each juror after these cases. It either makes people want to be a stealth juror or try to stay off one. Sad and scary, and especially for people who don't follow the news and may potentially be called. :cry


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:02 pm 
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I find it absolutely terrifying these willfully ignorant traybot worriers could be deciding my fate if I somehow broke the law one day. The utter disregard for facts, evidence, law, and reality in general is absolutely appalling.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Move away from the smiley page, Mimi...... move away from the smiley page..... you are going to hurt your head on that brick wall! :eek :slap

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:07 pm 
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The neighbor who bad-mouthed Dunn (the same who Dunn threatened to sue for defamation in one of his jail house letters) is Charles Hendrix Jr. I checked his Twitter account and I'm not surprised about the defamation. He's following a lot of people connected to HLN/CNN, anti-gun, liberals, Democrats, and daft Traybots. It seems he would have a lot of reason to defame a CCW neighbor.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:12 pm 
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I think they are coming back!! Mic noise

See updates in trial update thread

Michael Dunn (Murder 1) - TRIAL UPDATES
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=1191&p=69782#p69782

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Saw a thread on FB from Vinnie Politan's page and unbelievable how many people are totally outraged by the idea of a hung jury. And so many saying threats in regard to FL jurors . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:21 pm 
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Link for CNN if you threw your TV away in June like I did lol

http://www.zahistations.net/watch-cnn-usa-live

They are interrupting with trial updates - no cable subscription needed.

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