Thanks, Chip, for being an interesting, informative, and relevant pedant. (joking about the pedant part)

To recap in little words I can understand better to make sure I (finally) get it:

So, we know that technically there is no such thing as a SYG law. Therefore, referring to any defense statute as such is incorrect.

However, because the statute requiring immunity from prosecution under certain circumstances, including proving certain self-defense elements to a court, was passed by the legislature and signed into law along with other modifications/additions to self-defense statutes, all provisions thus enacted, including under some circumstances not burdening the citizen with a duty to retreat, aka SYG, then all such changes to the statutory scheme have been dubbed "SYG law" despite being separate and distinct statutes, with separate and distinct features, requirements, etc. Is that about right? Or at least one of the longest sentences you've ever read on a typical forum?

PS - But referring to the immunity available as SYG isn't quite as wrong as referring to common self-defense that's been on the books virtually nationwide for around 200 years as SYG. Amiright?

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Again, thanks, Hooson1st. Totally not how I thought it was supposed to work. GZ's case just really highlighted and emphasized their failure to do what I thought was their jobs. I wouldn't consider it putting oneself into the story to fact check what is offered.

You know, "your chocolate ration is being raised to 2 grams per week," etc. Seems self-evident and important for a free press to include the ration was 4 grams last week. Their main role is to keep government honest, which is why they're afforded so much protection. But apparently, if told the chocolate ration was raised, that's what they print, though they know it was actually cut in half.

No wonder media is being killed by their poor product, now that much better products are available on the internet.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Not exactly. There is no SYG Statute; however, there is an SYG Clause within Florida's statutes regarding the justifiable use of deadly force: Fl. St. 776.013(3), which reads, "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."



Yes, that basically sums it up.



I'm a pedant; it's all the same to me.

Really, it's an important distinction. Those who use deadly force in conventional self-defense have just as much right to legal immunity against criminal and civil prosecution as those who stand their ground. And those who are in a position to stand their ground have just as much moral right to use deadly force in self-defense as those who rely on conventional self-defense.

So, the issue is at least two-pronged:

1) The fight over SYG is really a fight over a basic moral right available to all
2) The fight over SYG is intentionally conflated with conventional self-defense, and threatens both

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

Thanks very much for taking the time to re-explain, Chip. You may feel pedantic, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who was interested, or who was educated, or who appreciate your efforts. It must get frustrating at times, I'm sure. But you explain these complicated issues so well! It's really your fault we keep calling on you educate us.

My PS was meant to be light-hearted, a smile for your efforts. It drives me nuts(er) that people confuse traditional self-defense with the lack of a duty to retreat (as if GZ could have) for the party with clean hands (pun intended), the one who was not the aggressor. Looking at you, Trayborg™!

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Read more at Click Orlando.

Pssst... the interesting part is in the first paragraph, quoted above... but you didn't hear that from me.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Ben Kruidbos, whistleblower, thread updated today. Investigation opened.

Please discuss in Ben Kruidbos thread.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Thanks for all of the updates.

Always nice to cyber-see you, jordan2. You're very welcome.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

jordan2 - I moved our posts to, and answered you in The Daily Chat thread here.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

No hits on a search quoting the first line in that pic.

Maybe it's original work by KonaSky? Or from an obscure blog? Either way, I tend to agree with the sentiment. I believe TM™ family let him down, and continue to do so. His death could have meant something, could have maybe helped to save other young lives. But instead, his death is being exploited for financial gain by his parents, and political gain by others.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Yeah, the triple exclamation point isn't common in msm. Found it posted as a comment by pepsionice at Free Republic. The photo and formatting were added before disseminating via twitter. There's more to the comment, BTW; a few paragraphs more.

Caution 1: Free Republic is at least Right Wing, if not fringe (not familiar with it) and the poster has a few words for President Obama, et al.

Caution 2: We avoid talking about politics at RT, so while we can discuss most of pepsionice's comment, let's please leave the politics at Free Republic or other political site. TIA

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

I found this profile of Lorna Truett interesting; particularly the behind-the-scenes GZ trial stuff.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Bao is all over the place, no? I thought he had proof TM was shot in the back? Now says the state knew it was self defense? Not one person on either side would believe for a minute that Corey & team wouldn't have jumped all over that "shot in the back" news if it was even the slightest bit credible. Heck, they would've had bao claim it even if they couldn't prove it! Me thinks he was blessed out and shown the door, blessed out some more as the door was closing, and now he's trying desperately to regain some credibility or respect. *Desperately* being the operative word.

I haven't seen Bao actually quoted as saying that, maybe he did, and maybe the Trayborg™ made it up, as they so often do.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Read more at The Orlando Sentinel.

If anyone runs across a live link, or a later video, please let us know.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

It seems Sybrina is packing on the pounds. She didn't loose much anyway during her ordeal like Crump said she did. She was always a huge woman. IMO