I have been reading a awful lot of dumb posts about this case. (at another site)

Posts that usually start "Well I think........." and then proceed with made up stuff... imagined, and NOT the case based on what little is known.

The general Mob hysteria focuses on GZ being an evil and/or psychotic and/or doped up on misused prescription meds.... who profiled, targeted and went after TM... intending to kill him

Yeah... right...... Having decided to go get this kid...Zimmerman first calls the cops (People seem to forget that it was ZIMMERMAN who called the cops and caused them to be minutes away).... knows the cops are on their way, perhaps minutes or even seconds away... and will no doubt witness whatever he does.. then he attacks TM and whips out his gun and shoots him for no reason.


If it doesn't make sense... it's not true. - Judge Judy

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Hello!

I really don't know what happened in that 1 minute 57 seconds from when Z. made his call till when the police entered the complex or even before. I do know defendants lie, to save their necks. Seems to be one witness named "John" but his statement starts with both men on the ground. Both fighting for their lives, obviously. Just because one gains control in the middle of a fight, doesn't meant they started it - does it? If we are to believe Trayvon's friend, Z. started following him, and he was scared. I believe even a big kid - can get scared. There ARE NUTS out there.
Been reading... and hope my link got thru here. (NOTE: It is 2 pages). The experts say this never ever should have happened. That is what I have always felt too.
Seems there are many reasons why a Neighborhood Watch should be "Registered".
And it looks like, to me, there are many (or at least some), reasons why some do not "Register" their Neighborhood Watch.
I think some people don't like being TOLD what to do?
Guess the above - is my bottom line ...

Although I think it is begging the question to describe TM as a "Child" (In size and stature he is hardly that)... I do agree he is a (male) youth.. no doubt used to rough and tumble and physical fights. Beyond that I can not comment until I see some evidence... but PERHAPS he was one all to ready to get into fights. I have seen rumours about the reason he was expelled from school. (I would like to see some evidence about that). Anyway, it's not unreasonable to hypothesis that a 17 year old would start a physical confrontation. Especially with a smaller man.

However... surely in a Country (State) where people can, and do, carry concealed weapons (legally), it would be wise (essential) to ASSUME that anybody you confront COULD be carrying a gun... and so NOT get into a physical fight. I do concede that TM's youth may have contributed to to him not thinking that way. Young people (male) are often prone to settle disputes with physical altercations.... sadly that is likely to go badly if the other person has a gun.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I totally agree with all of the above.

And - testosterone is nothing to mess with in either of them! (God bless our males!)

People do bring their baggage with them, previous experiences, possible fight with a wife that day/girlfriend, anger,
frustrations, etc. Sad. Nobody has a clean slate ... we all have our baggage.

It is very distressing to only hear the one side of things, the one side of the person fighting now to save THEIR
life. Sadly, I know they lie, defendant's all lie. Even their family does too for them. What an eye opening experience we
had with the infamous CMA trial, eh?

If only truth were told, most cases would find a just verdict, and FAST! And cheaply!!

Going to have my second then Dr.

Here is a different perspective... especially on the "Child" description of TM

There is evidence he was very much involved in what is being labeled "Fight Club"... egging others on in fights



In fact there is a video of such an incident... posted on TM's own Youtube page (Now removed of course)

Here is that video... re-posted elsewhere:




Trayvon Martin Youtube page before it was edited (Includes Fight Club Vid)



Here is what it looks like now. Notice the fight video is removed.


There is a lot more Evidence of TM's general character... I think it is important to counter the silly notion bandied about that TM was merely a child..... HARDLY!

For more information..."The Last Refuge"
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... more-40310

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Several witnesses in George Zimmerman case change their accounts
By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
1:51 p.m. CDT, May 22, 2012

Evidence released last week in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford.
Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.

Here are the key ways in which their stories changed.
(Snipped... full details at link)

......more at link(Including a Video report of the story)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 5603.story

Witness 2
A young woman who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community where Trayvon was shot, was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
"I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."
"saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."
A week later, she added a detail During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.
That all changed when she was re-interviewed March 20 by a Florida Department of Law Enforcement agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure.

Witness 12
A young mother, who is also a neighbor in the townhome community, never gave a recorded interview to Sanford police, according to prosecution records released last week. She first sat down for an audio-recorded interview with an FDLE agent March 20, more than three weeks after the shooting.
she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.
Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top,

Witness 6
This witness lived a few feet from where Trayvon and Zimmerman had their fight. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.
But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by an FDLE agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.

Witness 13
He is important because he talked to Zimmerman and watched the way he behaved immediately after the shooting, before police arrived.
After this neighbor heard gunfire, he went outside and spotted Zimmerman standing there "blood on the back of his head," he told Sanford police the night of the shooting.
Zimmerman told him that Trayvon "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him," the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.
In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.

Those witnesses are likely to be interviewed at least once more before Zimmerman's trial. Defense attorneys in Florida routinely question witnesses under oath as they prepare for trial.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

George Zimmerman Will Never Be Convicted of Murdering Trayvon Martin
by David R. Dow May 22, 2012 4:45 AM EDT

The new evidence released by prosecutors makes clear that if the case even reaches trial, which is highly unlikely, Florida’s Stand Your Ground law means Zimmerman is sure to get acquitted, writes David R. Dow.



First, special prosecutor Angela Corey's statement last month that public pressure had nothing to do with the decision to bring charges against George Zimmerman is exposed for the bunk that it always was.

Second, if the case against Zimmerman ever reaches a jury (which it probably won't), there is no chance he will be convicted. Of course, Corey is an experienced prosecutor who must know this, which only further reveals the role public pressure played in her decision to indict.

Why won’t Zimmerman be convicted? Because we now know everything the jury is going to know. We've read the reports, seen the photos, heard the tapes. The only way the jury could learn something not contained in the documents, photographs, and medical reports released last week would be if witnesses with personal knowledge were to testify. But that will not happen, because Martin is dead, and Zimmerman won't speak.

....more at link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... artin.html

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Hmmm we shall see.

I don't like this Angela at all. it looks like she over charged and now it'll cause all kinds of problems either way it goes. She's the one who brought the charges against a wife who shot at the ceiling to scare her husband of and now the woman faces 20 years because of the Freakin' mandatory-minimum law.

I agree in both cases Angela Corey over charged.. but the Warning Shot woman did get 20 years mandatory? Perhaps subject to appeal. I believe in that case a plea deal and 3 years sentence was turned down?

In the Zimmerman case.. it is (IMO) clearly self defence. But for mob hysteria fired up by talk of racism.. the case would just be an all too common tragedy. Certainly NOT an international or even local ongoing news item. And certainly NOT the subject of a forum at Random Topics, or any other Crime site. LE and the prosecutors decided to NOT press charges.. which was the correct decision. Angela Corey (I guess) felt she had to be seen to be tough on Zimmerman to calm the hysteria?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Criminal expert: Zimmerman will go free -- Erin Burnett OutFront

CNN's Erin Burnett talks to a criminal expert who says George Zimmerman will not go to trial. David Dow, defense attorney and law professor says it is unlikely that the case will ever make it to trial and even if it does, Zimmerman will never be convicted of murdering 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

George Zimmerman prosecutors ask judge to seal his statements, other evidence


Prosecutors want a judge to seal key evidence in the case against George Zimmerman from the public until trial, including the statements he made to law enforcement during the investigation of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin's death.

Citing a statutory exemption barring the release of confessions, the prosecution asks Judge Kenneth Lester in a new motion to seal Zimmerman's statements, as well as any photos in the case which show the teen's body.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... ack-voices

This case is giving me a real headache! I was so into Caylee Anthony... and look what happened.
Wasn't worth it - in hind site. Not sure how that happened to me. I know I was just searching to learn more after
hearing about the case on Nancy Grace. Never knew what a blog was, etc. etc.

This link has an audio from a co-worker who talks about Zimmerman bullying him because of his ethnic background.
Shows mind-set? Other links too about his being a Dr. Jekel Mr. Hyde too. Who IS George Zimmerman?

Three eye witnesses have changed their stories. One said she saw 2 men running. Now she is saying she saw one.
The other two not sure who was on top now. All on HLN tv.

Zimmerman PASSED Voice Stress Test (Form of Lie Detector Test)

The police conducted a lie-detection procedure, known as voice stress analysis, on Mr. Zimmerman that he passed, and they had him re-enact the encounter with Mr. Martin back at the Retreat the day after the shooting. But the operating belief was that the police did not have enough evidence to establish probable cause for a manslaughter charge and an arrest, according to officials with knowledge of the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/tr ... gewanted=4

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I didn't know that.

A friend of mine was into that at almost the start of it, back in PA. Not sure when that was, in the 80's maybe?
He was about 26. He headed a Golden Retriever group. I was rescuing/placing animals too. I have watched it gain popularity over the years and was happy about that.

That is very, very interesting about George.

Tired ... was speaking about the Voice Stress Testing.

We met thru our animal work.

Prosecutors in George Zimmerman murder trial want some evidence sealed

Prosecutors wants witness names, cell phone records, confessions and other materials kept from the media.
By Frances Robles
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

Prosecutors handling the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman filed a motion late Wednesday asking the judge to seal parts of the evidence.
Among the items Duval County Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda wants kept from the public: the results of a test police conducted on Zimmerman the day after he killed Trayvon Martin. The results have already been provided to the court under seal, de la Rionda said.

De la Rionda also wants to seal two CDs of audio interviews with a witness identified as “W9.” She is the same person who called police anonymously just two days after the killing to say Zimmerman and his family were racists.
In an interview with the prosecutors who handled the case prior to the Duval County State Attorney’s office stepping in, W9 made more allegations, the record shows. “The subject matter deals with an allegation made by witness W9 regarding an act committed by Defendant. This material may or may not be relevant or admissible in this case,” de la Rionda wrote.

De la Rionda’s motion shows he filed a motion under seal — available only to the judge and the lawyers on both sides — on May 14.
(Judge did not agree)

The public motion filed Wednesdsay asks for the following materials to be sealed:

• Names, addresses and phone numbers of 22 witnesses.

• Crime scene photos and autopsy photos and any others showing Trayvon’s body.

• The 911 call that captured the shooting, which is already widely available on the Internet.

• Zimmerman’s statements to police.

• Cell phone records.

Prosecutors argue that some of the evidence is not subject to Florida’s public-records law.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/23/2814613/prosecutors-in-george-zimmerman.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Interesting eh? Florida I believe has it's Sunshine Law which means everything is public, I think.

Promised myself I would NEVER get as involved with another case, EVER like I did in the Casey Anthony case. (This reminds
me of her! )
Going to try not too. This one is so heated, some people have been banned from a blog I discovered when I was trying to learn
more about Caylee, others have left on their own, 2 have threatened to leave and I am not sure about me.

I do have plenty to do, being a Caregiver of my husband.

You're right, Joni, it is heated and there will probably be bannings all over before the end. And they do have the sunshine law so it will be interesting to see how they get around all of this.

They say a witness said GZ and his family are racists but at times depending on when things are happening I think a lot of us have some racism in us. So in this case with the reports of crimes or attempted crimes in the area allegedly by young blacks, that may have caused him to be suspicious by an almost natural inclination that we'd be fools to deny in my opinion.

Trayvon had very very bad luck that night I think. He was trying to get to his Dad's girl's townhouse which I think was the last one down, on the left. Also, down there was the "Back Entrance/Exit" to the place I believe. Didn't look good for that poor kid.
I don't like it when they put the victim on trial, trying to prove what - he deserved to die? Not sure... maybe, or just make it so "Ok so what. He wasn't any good - anyhow." They do that to rape victims, as we all know.
As usual, any defence team tries to get everything they can out there, fast - early. They know they have no rules of court/law now, able to say ANYTHING, and are reaching the Jury Pool, from which will be picked the JURY.
I keep coming back to - it could have been our son. I don't believe he was doing anything wrong that night ... was he? Zimmerman doesn't have clean hands either ... he has a past. And he has a Dad who is a Retired Magistrate Judge. I imagine that has to be - helpful
really, if one ever does get in "trouble". God help us all!

It is great to get so much information on cases... it was the Florida Sunshine Law and all the detailed info we got during the Anthony Circus that got me interested and posting on line. It has it's draw backs... certainly as far as stuff released to general public...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light