It is currently Mon May 19, 2025 1:18 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1006 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 51  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 1124
murderbythebook wrote:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... 8187.story

Trayvon Martin's parents expect 'rough road' at murder trial


The high-profile trial for their son's killer in Seminole County is a week away.

And Trayvon Martin's parents expect a "rough road" during George Zimmerman's second-degree-murder trial in Sanford.

Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin joined their attorney, Benjamin Crump, as roughly 300 people gathered for the Community Program of Peace, Justice and Prayer on Saturday afternoon at Bethel Apostolic Temple in Miami.

"We're going to have to sit through all the negativity," Tracy Martin said during an emotional prayer service.

He was referring to defense attorney Mark O'Mara's attempts to cast his son as an aggressor whose actions more than a year ago prompted Zimmerman to fire in self-defense.

more at link


If they think this is the hardest part they are sadly mistaken. When my cousin was murdered, his parents were torn up through the testimony of the ME.

In other words, they know their son is dead but the autopsy testimony brings it all home again like it was yesterday.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 585
Quote:
He was referring to defense attorney Mark O'Mara's attempts to cast his son as an aggressor


OS is now providing Tracy's thoughts?

Tracy may have actually been referring to the "negativity" associated with the three SPD cops that testified that Tracy is a liar.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 585
This is just Crump repeating the Anderson case:

1. kid dies from cycle cell anemia while in juvenile boot camp
2. protests organized, governor appoints special prosecutor
3. Pam Bondi says boot camp guards killed kid, presents crappy case to jury
4. jury acquits all defendants of all charges after 90 minutes of deliberations
5. DOJ finds no evidence of any civil rights violations, no federal charges filed
6. Crump whines about civil rights violations, but collects $7 million in settlements from Florida taxpayers, facilitated by Florida politicians


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 36
kingkazpur wrote:
The greiving mother had actually kicked Trayvon out of her home three times in the last four months of his life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0b9xDhWocg





Welcome to RT, Captain Long . . . errr, I mean "kingkazpur."

http://thinkingisasin.wordpress.com/author/kingkazpur/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 45
So the traybots continue their attempt at confusion, and they put so much stuff up that I can't respond to it all, and they think they then win the arguments. Here is a set of points they claim makes for a lot of problems for the defense. can you guys help me answer these points?


1. Street Name: Zimmerman claimed he followed Martin to use the pass through to the north side of two housing sections to find a street sign so he could give an address to the police because he didn't know what street he was on. A couple of things were that doesn't ring true. First, there are only 3 streets in the development (Twin Trees Lane, Retreat View Circle, and Long Oak Way). Zimmerman lived on Retreat View Circle which is the street he says he was going through to find the name of, the same street he lived on. Retreat view Circle is a street that loops around the whole complex, The other street is the one he drives into and out of every time he entered or left the development for the two years he lived there which is Twin Trees Lane which bisects the loop created by Retreat View Circle. Second, there are no street signs on houses, there are house numbers. The closest street sign which would tell him the name of Twin Trees Lane was back toward the clubhouse in the exact opposite direction that he headed. He lived there for two years and was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch and didn't know the name of the main street running through the development and didn't know where to go to find a street sign (which are at intersections).

2. Lack of Damage to Martins Hands: Zimmerman claimed that Martin punched him in the face over a dozen times. The autopsy report shows that there was only one small abrasion measuring 1/8 x 1/4 inch on one finger of the left hand. Someone pummeling someone else in the head (a boney structure) will likely have more damage to their hands than one small abrasion. We know that Martin got at least one shot in because of Zimmerman's nosebleed, that injury is consistent with that, but that is not consistent with being beaten severely about the head by being punched dozens of times.

3. Martin Covered Zimmerman's Nose and Mouth: Standard autopsy procedures are to conduct a through external examination of the body and do not damage and other surface details. This was done. Zimmerman claims that Martin attacked him and the first thing he did was punch him in the face damaging his nose, which we know bleed because of photographs at the scene. Zimmerman also claimed that Martin covered his mouth and nose with his hands during the struggle. However the autopsy report does not indicate there was any blood on Martin's hand. In addition a DNA analysis of samples from the hand returned none of Zimmerman's DNA (which would have been contained in the blood) and forensic examination of Martin's hoodie cuffs (both) returned negative results for Zimmerman's DNA.

4. Bullet Trajectory: See image below. Zimmerman described the struggle occurring in this the of configuration. Martin on top of and straddling Martin. Zimmerman's firearm was holstered on the right side, back of his body. Zimmerman said that Martin grabbed for the gun in the holster. First of all how would Martin have known the gun was there under Zimmerman's jacket. Secondly Zimmerman would have had to get his arm under Martin's let. Finally, take a moment and close your eyes and think of the articulation of a persons shoulder, elbow, and wrist. Now, the autopsy report shows that the bullet travel was straight into Martins chest (in other words perpendicular to the chest and not at an angle either up/down or left/right). Pulling a weapon from a hip holstered weapon, the most natural movement would result in the weapons being placed against the attackers side shooting up. Having to manipulate the weapon between the bodies, lift it to be level with the chest, and then bending the wrists "down" (i.e. toward your own feet) is a very unnatural position for the arm.


5. Gun Shot Residue (GSR): When a weapon is discharge chemically laden smoke and partially burned gunpowder is ejected down the barrel and out through the ejection port (for semi-automatics). Now if Zimmerman was below Martin and their chests were in close proximity then discharging a firearm between then is going to provide a fairly close proximity of Zimmerman's cloths to the source of of GSR (in other words the fired gun). Forensic examination of Zimmerman's clothing showed no GSR on Zimmerman's jacket front or on the front of the sleeves. There was GSR on Zimmerman's hands. No having GSR on the clothing indicates Zimmerman's arm was extended at the time the shot was fired, which means the his arm would have been extended through Martins chest.


6. Who Confronted Who: Zimmerman initially claimed that Martin jumped him (audio tapes) and said threatening things to him when he was on the ground, by the next morning in the video reenactment Martin approached Zimmerman and then then spoke to him and then attacked. However Zimmerman didn't know that night and during the next mornings reenactment that Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend. This is confirmed through phone records. It appears that the girlfriend will testify that she heard a male voice speaking to Martin first, a direct contradiction of both versions that Zimmerman claimed.

7. Location of Martins Body #1: During the audio tapes Zimmerman claimed Martin jumped him and knocked him to the ground, the next morning Zimmerman pointed out the location of where he said he and Martin first came together (which was at the "T" intersection of the sidewalk) as Zimmerman was walking back to his truck (after crossing to look for a street sign that wouldn't have been there) and that's how he and Martin came together. The only problem is that Martin's body was 50 feet or so south of the intersection.

8. Location of Martins Body #2:Zimmerman claimed that he shot Martin when he was bashing his head into the concreate, yet Martin’s body was not near the sidewalk. After being shot straight through the heart and as Zimmerman claimed slumping to the side after being shot, Martin's body was not in a location which matched the conditions described.


Quote Originally Posted by TNConservative View Post
and since he has the injuries,
His injuries only show that he was losing the fight, they do not prove how the fight started or the conditions at the time the shot was fired.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:40 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
Welcome to RT, guitarjeff :51

You have in effect posted a list of Traybot talking (arguing) points... all asked and answered many times.

It would take some time to cover them all ... again.... and in my experience it is a waste of time. They don't read/comprehend the answers. Even if they look to concede a point... they just raise more, and when all else fails... revert to "Well Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck (when told)"

However, assuming you are genuine and NOT just a stealth Traybot, perhaps somebody would like to take up the challenge and provide answers.

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:03 pm
Posts: 44
It seems like O'Mara was in fact wrong about the video:
Quote:
During the Tuesday, May 28th hearing, Mr. O'Mara misstated the nature of video from Trayvon Martin's cell phone which was included in the Defendant's 3rd Supplemental Discovery. He stated that the video showed "two buddies of his beating up a homeless guy," when what happened was Trayvon Martin, along with a buddy, was videotaping two homeless guys fighting each other over a bike. Though it was unintentional, it is a particular concern to us because we are and have been committed to disputing misinformation in every aspect of this case, not causing it. For that, Mr. O’Mara apologizes.
http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/pressreleases/184-correction-and-apology-regarding-misstated-nature-of-trayvon-martin-video
He should have probably been more prompt about it, given that he had asked the press to verify it for themselves.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:49 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
Thanks KF10.

This still stinks..... it is hardly just a slip of the tongue.

A video as he alluded to... TM videoing his buddies has been the subject of rumours... perhaps there is a video of that as well, it is just not the one he says was included in 3rd discovery.

So what IS in 4th discovery... where is it... and why is O'Mara playing silly games with "hide the discovery"

I have tried to stay well away from any MOM bashing... as a pragmatist I realise we are stuck with him... but I am having an end-spurt of disappointment with his performance.

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 45
Thanks Rupole. Definitely genuine here and hope someone will have time to respond with a detailed answer for all these points. What gets me is that the Traybots don't really seem to ever say exactly what they are hoping to prove with all this stuff.

I hear MOM and Dersh say that none of this stuff matters where the classic self defense comes in. they say no matter what happened prior to the altercation, as long as GZ was under attack and unable to flee the situation, then he had the right to use deadly force to save his own life. That's what I believe should be the deciding factor, so why do the Traybots continue to say all this stuff if Dersh and MOM are right and all that matters is that GZ was unable to flee and was in danger? I have already tried to answer a couple of these,for instance, they keep bringing up that TM had none of GZ blood on his hands from trying to hold his mouth and nose. I explained this by pointing out how we all hold our heads back to stop our noses from bleeding. If GZ was on the ground looking up, then there is good reason why his nose might not have started bleeding yet, not to mention that clearly he is swollen, which could also restrict blood flowing out the nostrils.

The fact that TM only had one scratch on his knuckle, as if every fight must have injuries to the hand 100 percent of the time, which is just silly. The one they hold up most is the street name thing and how they claim he should have known he was heading in the wrong direction, and also the fact that TM body was 40 feet or so from the T and GZ said he didn't go down the T intersection, so how could TM body be that far away.

Help explaining these two things alone would be great.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:03 pm
Posts: 44
guitarjeff wrote:
Quote Originally Posted by TNConservative View Post
and since he has the injuries,
His injuries only show that he was losing the fight, they do not prove how the fight started or the conditions at the time the shot was fired.


Let's simply fast-forward to this. Zimmerman lost "the fight". The State of Florida has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman, having lost the fight, did not hold a reasonable and objective belief that at the time the shooting occurred he was about to suffer serious bodily harm or death at the capable fists of NO_LIMIT_NIGGA. It doesn't even matter who provoked whom before that. The only thing the prosecution can hope for is to make simple facts get lost in the cloud of confusion they'll try to create.

Edit: Replace "lost the fight" with "was losing the fight", same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:17 pm
Posts: 2469
Welcome guitarjeff. I could be called guitarjoni too! An acousitc Martin.
Many still have questions ... honest questions, but I don't think here is the place to ask them, and I'm not sure why. For some odd reason, sites have taken sides already. I haven't, but I do wonder about some "choices" made.

Seriously does anybody know where there is a two sided place where people can have a calm, truly civilized, two sided "discussion"? I would seriously like to ask questions there, like Jeff. Not sure why people get enraged when someone asks honest questions. Maybe they just have not been in the case for awhile - life got in the way? That's not a crime, is it?

I have never seen such high levels of anger as in this case. Why is that? Some are just coming back to it because the trial is coming. Isn't that ok? Some too are not lawyers.

I have questions I would like answered too, and am looking for such a place where people are still open minded, searching for the truth. I have always taken the one left standing's "story" with a grain of salt. They have an agenda. Only forensics for me. They don't lie. After all, look what can be done - the Jodi Arias case.

Of course Trayvon was no saint, but I don't think Zimmerman is either. But what IS in question is what happened that night, isn't it? I am going to look at more of the videos here, maps, etc. They are very good.

Please be kind... thanks. We are all on a search for the TRUTH, aren't we? Isn't that was trials are? :34


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:40 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
JONI You have asked questions. You have been given answers, by me and others. You have been linked to legal experts etc... and still you ask the same questions a year later. I have linked you back to same question asked before... with an answer... please look at earlier threads on this case. Asking same questions and expecting different answers is insanity.

The problem with questions is..... Traybots don't like the answer.. they do not absorb the info... they ask it all again.

It is a WASTE of my time and effort explaining stuff.. finding links and references if it is just going to be ignored.

The "moral equivalence" notion is particularly galling.... "TM was no saint.. but GZ wasn't either".... that is total crap. There is no comparison. WHAT point would that prove? The VICTIM in this case is George...

And in most cases WHAT exactly are people asking the questions for? The answers do NOT change the overall facts of this case.. which are VERY simple. In a forest of evidence... it is intellectual masturbation to be looking at the odd dry leaf.

let it go Joni.

The False narrative has been dis-proven. TM was not a little child... and GZ was not a rabid racist.

Take it from there. GZ has given an account of events.. he gave it willingly... it outlines CLEARLY a self defence situation. Every witness is consistent with that version. It is to be taken as true, unless there is evidence to refute it.
GZ passed a lie detector test.

It does not matter how many "What if....." scenarios you can imagine..... you need evidence and there is none.

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:03 pm
Posts: 44
Joni, sorry if I seemed too direct. It is of course worth examining the bigger picture, if only for the historical record. The greatest resource by far analyzing the evidence in piecemeal form is probably DiwataMan's blog, and I'm going to link to his index: http://diwataman.wordpress.com/my-posts ... rman-case/

Mike McDaniel does some impressive write-ups on the case gathering together multiple datapoints and always going back to what he previously discussed, though I cannot point to any single one of his essays that gets you up to speed from scratch: http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.c ... rtin-case/

But as a legal matter, the question is whether Zimmerman was pinned down and mounted by Trayvon, getting his face turned into hamburger and having a reasonable objective belief of great harm to his person. If he was, then the shot was legally permissible. If he wasn't pinned down and in fear of a bloody outcome as described, then Zimmerman is a criminal, the severity of which we'll have to judge--regardless of whether Trayvon caught him by surprise and was responsible for everything leading up to the shooting. But there's simply no evidence of the latter.

That the Traybots are apparently trying to establish new legal standards, such the crime of Trayvon getting shot while disrespected, should be worrying to all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:52 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
The Way It's NOT
Image

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:55 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
Image

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:55 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
Trayvon Martin was not a little child


Image

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:17 pm
Posts: 2469
KF10 Thank you so much for your answer. Much appreciated. Nothing is ever too direct for me. IT IS what it is!! Just on a quest for the total truth here.

I will read diwataman link and also Mike's. Such wonderful direction ... thanks so much! :heart

Guess it boggles my mind, not knowing when "guilt" comes into this ... at what point? This is not an easy one ... for me anyhow. I have wondered about some of George's choices, maybe it's because I have a permit to carry, (musician - out very late at nights. I remember well their final instructions to me at the Sherriff's office. It was about being prudent, careful, not being a Hero, trying to avoid a confrontation at all costs if I can, (because anything could happen!), etc. This was when I lived back in PA. Now in OR.

How good it is to have you here at R.T. I am grateful...
Thanks again for the great "direction/links". Will share with friends too, many of whom are also confused at this point.


Last edited by Joni on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 585
Rumpole wrote:
This still stinks..... it is hardly just a slip of the tongue.


+eleventy I believe that there was a prior reference to BDLR mentioning finding a bike video on Trayvon's phone. Seems to me beyond bizarre that O'Mara gets it wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:14 pm 
Offline
ADMIN
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 57118
Location: Pomeroy's Wine Bar
Joni.

I have looked back at the FIRST GZ thread... and you were asking the same questions back then. Even then it was obvious that people had been deceived by the Scheme Team... but since then there has been a year of discussion and new information. You really need to catch up on that.

For instance.. a post I linked you to back then (24th July 2012)

Rumpole wrote:
A good outline in a "TalkLeft" post at TalkLeft Forum

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/to ... l#msg98384

Excerpts:
BBM
Quote:
"Absolute Irrefutable proof" is not the test for either side in a criminal case. For the state, it is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ committed murder (or the lesser included manslaughter offense). That requires them to disprove GZ's self-defense theory.

There were no injuries on TM other than the gunshot besides a scrape on one finger. He does not display injuries of being physically confronted by GZ while GZ has injuries/marks/scrapes on the top, sides and back of his head, his face, and a broken nose to show he was physically attacked by TM.

As of now, no witness saw the onset of the altercation. No witness reported seeing George push or shove Trayvon. The state has not even alleged that. Zimmerman says Martin attacked him without provocation. Unless Zimmerman's version of events is not physically possible, how will it disprove his account? Not by saying "But this could have happened." The state needs evidence to support its theories. Inferences must come from the evidence. Reasonable doubt can arise from the evidence presented or lack of evidence presented.

You also need to realize that Florida law says that at trial, when the evidence concludes, if the facts present two reasonable explanations for what happened, one of which supports the Defendant's claim of self-defense, the judge should grant a motion for judgment of acquittal and not even submit the case to the jury.

While Zimmerman's account alone could be sufficient, the fact that W-13 (and I believe W-6) heard him say he shot TM in self-defense is considered corroborating evidence.

If reasonable people can view the evidence differently, the jurors likely will too, and if one of those views supports Zimmerman, it requires an acquittal.

The state's theory that GZ could have avoided any encounter with TM by staying in his car may be factually accurate, but it is immaterial, in my view, under the statutes and case law as to whether GZ acted in self-defense. TM could also have avoided the encounter had he not gone to 7-11 that night, or by going directly home. Zimmerman was in a place he lawfully had a right to be -- the public areas of his neighborhood. The state keeps saying TM wasn't doing anything unlawful. That's not the test. according to Florida law:
Quote:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

So please stop confusing readers with "well this could have happened" and "this hasn't been ruled out." That's not the test.

Try to think of it from the perspective of: The state presents its case first. What evidence -- testimony and exhibits -- will it present to show murder or manslaughter? Assuming it makes a sufficient case -- then the defense presents its evidence of self-defense. What does the state have to refute his theory that amounts to proof beyond a reasonable doubt his self-defense claim is not valid?

_________________
Image Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:47 pm
Posts: 301
Rumpole wrote:
Trayvon Martin was not a little child


Image



Notice the hood is on and it was on when he left in the rain.

Why did W8 say he had to put his hood on cause it started to rain? :roll


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1006 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 51  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group