I guess my point is that if no one has ever read the Bond Application, how can anyone say that there are any untruths to it? GZ may have listed some funds, maybe not. He was absolutely truthful on the Jail Intake Form.


It must be me. If someone makes a statement regarding anything in this case, I prefer it to be evidence based. I want to see (whatever) for my own eyes. I don't care who the authority is that is telling me to believe, they got to put up or shut up. Prove it to me so that I can believe it. I want to believe it.

I am just not willing to take someone's word for it.

It isn't unlike the big discussion about the Tweet from Seni. He directly told me he was there in his since deleted tweet. I quoted him because I know about deleting tweets that are made. Crump referred to a male assistant to Gutman. I don't know if Candace Smith was there. I don't doubt that she was involved on the production end but there is nothing that directly places her in that room at that time, AFAIK.

I have no idea when Seni decided to scrub that tweet. It was up for a while because I went back a month or so later and retweeted it just as a reminder. He may have done it then, or more recently. I've got no idea. He thinks I am a pain in the arse and I am okay with that.

I tried. I thought that there was a couple of good questions posed but got no takers to weigh in. I even tried out on the main page. Sorry. Maybe it will pick up as we get nearer to trial.

Hey, no problem thanks for trying, it might be something nobody had considered and they are willing to opine, yet. Your point about the Bond Application is well taken, I have not seen anything to even suggest one was filled out. Since there was a hearing, an application was not needed. The problem is this and many other things, are just not released to the public, so we are left hanging not knowing for sure. My thinking is that one was not filed, because GZ was not charged with perjury, falsification of documents or any other such charge. If there was something the prosecution would have charged him, if only to keep the pressure on GZ.

I think I went to SpamFrmHell at CTH so I am doing this here...

From October 15th, 2012 Motion by Don West…


I separated the one sentence that I am trying to italicize. Sorry, I don’t know how to do that using WP. I think this is important because if the phone records are much the same as the ones that Crump submitted to NBC, do those records match what was given to the Defense? Or is he talking about the Simple Mobile phone records that were subpoenaed thru 4/2/12 not matching with Martins?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... arings.pdf

I had to used a cached version, IDKY, because I went thru GZ Legal to get it.

ETA: NOW OUT OF SPAMFRMHELL!!! But seriously, more comfortable posting here instead.

OK. But this is "the big thing" with MOM and SD.

Frankly, I don't agree with the tactic being used. Anything that divides support for Zimmerman is not a good thing. Anything that might drive a wedge that would hamper the raising of funds for an incredibly expensive defense, which I believe to be entirely possible, I am totally against.

I feel like I have been transported to Missouri...The Show Me State. ((That is a natural irritant to a Native Texan )) Show me that MOM is lying. Show me the Bond Application. I will stop contributing my few bucks whenever I can afford it to the legal team until he has a replacement. And as enthused as I was at the beginning of Don West that has since waned. He hasn't shown me much the last couple of hearings either...

I think the main reason this bugs me is that it's old news. I mean, yeah, it could be that if something went on back then, it could still be having an impact now. I get that. But what I DON'T get is why, every once in awhile, it all blows up again. Someone makes a comment about something bad MOM did -- something he did many months ago -- and then several other people join in. That's why I've asked a couple times at the Treehouse: "Why is this coming up again NOW? Nothing new has happened, and yet we're bringing it up again? What is the POINT?" If someone could give me a good reason why we should keep reminding everyone of this, I might feel different. But as it stands, it just seems to me that it only serves to get people fighting amongst themselves, and if George is reading... well, as I said, it can't be much fun for him.

I think the answer is simple, we have strong opinionated people at the CTH, their involvement with GZ is not personal, but as part of something larger. To use an expression from SD, GZ is a product, the BGI, Scheme Team, LSM all see him as a way to gain riches. Certain people in the CTH see GZ as a way to expose the BGI, Scheme Team, LSM. Exposing those entities is more important to them, when they feel that enough is not done to carry out that, they do lash out. I am not saying they would sacrifice GZ to make a point, but that they see as a perfect opportunity to expose some things and don't want that opportunity to go away without accomplishing their goal.

Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest.

CLASSIC "WHAT IF........"

Doubling down on DAFT.....



"Zimerman should never have gotten out of his truck........ TWICE"



Honestly I am not making this up..... THEY write it I just get shown copies





Quoted posts and discussion of JQ go to...........
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=63&p=24917#p24916




Please stick broadly to the GZ case in this thread



If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!!

I agree that there is something much greater than Zimmerman at work here. It is a politically driven prosecution. But time is of the essence in getting GZ free of the charges. I understand that it can all fall into the right places with the right information. As Coreshift reminded me tonight the "Something's Afoot" speech was brilliant. It outlines what that team has been up against. It also shows that Mark O'Mara has a firm grasp on his case and what all it entails. It is practically an affidavit in itself.

The problem being is in order to have all of the dominoes fall into place is that it requires time. Trial is scheduled to start in 3 months. They can file for another Motion to Continue but what if it gets denied yet again? Can they accomplish that in such a narrow time frame or should the focus remain on Zimmerman? With a judge who is clearly Prosecution oriented?

If it happens, and I sincerely hope that house of cards falls down, look at history. Crump is using Sharpton's playbook like he is heir apparent. Why do you think that Crump will disappear into the weeds? Sharpton still rises ire by prolonging the race debate even though there is none. AA's see him entirely differently. He is a civil rights hero. The only person involved with Duke who payed was Nifong and he served one day, IIRC.

You can't really think that Corey will go the same way. Since the initial presser, she has been a ghost. BDLR was vague enough in what we have read and scoffed at, he is still in a position where he can claim Plausible Deniability. Crump has an assortment of people that he can toss under the bus, including the parents. He may not make money off this case but I suspect he will be relatively unscathed.

Mark my words. The State desperately needs a guilty verdict. I don't think it matters one bit that he could be locked in appeals for months possibly years, They don't care about the expenses incurred by Zimmerman. That will give Scott less than 18mos to take credit for this before the next election. He is expected to have some real competition this time around. He needs to court black voters to accomplish that goal and what better way to get them than to serve Zimmerman up on a platter with guilty tattooed on his forehead? IMO, the GOP cannot afford to let Florida slip away.

And that ultimately is what "this" is all about...

I am not sure about the guilty verdict, but they do need a resolution by trial. That would remove questions about the SYG law. A decision by peers is always better than a Judge. IMO a resolution is what is important. He can say to the AA community that justice system was used and he was found not guilty or guilty. He can claim to tamp down a dangerous situation. Just imagine rioters at Disney World, the financial engine of Central Florida. That is why this trial is being fast-tracked IMO, a resolution is needed ASAP.

As MOM said, ((paraphrased)) Zimmerman's acquittal should not be seen as a failure for civil rights. Unfortunately, so many people are emotionally invested in this case that is exactly how they will see it. They have believed every piece of fodder put out by Crump, Sharpton and Jackson.

The Immunity Hearing is a big deal to me. Without an extension from the court, he almost has to put it into the trial. If he could have gotten a continuance, then he would have had some play room with the 45 days. When that was denied it narrowed his options. Before they start, in the middle or before it goes to the jury. I don't much care. Zimmerman needs to get that Immunity in place.

((As noted by Jeralyn, there are some valid reasons for appeal if necessary. I hope it won't be but I am skeptical. I watched this go sideways since the first doc dump. Before that I thought maybe a manslaughter charge might be appropriate.))

Part of me really thinks that the trial is being fast-tracked because Crump only has a two year window for filing suit against GZ.

BTW, thank you for talking to me about this! I am so NOT A LAWYER. But I do have opinions...not bad for a Democrat, heh? LOL.

I am still trying to learn this forum ;) Thanks Rumpole for another good place to share and learn.

You are welcome... thanks for joining

A GOOD step might be a nice avatar pic?

Members can do that... but I can help if necessary... have you got a pic you like?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Jose Baez: Evidence ’so weak’ in George Zimmerman case
posted by halboedeker on March, 10 2013 9:00 AM

Jose Baez turned analyst on the George Zimmerman case and gave viewers of preview of what they might see in coming months.

“I have never seen a high-profile case that is so weak as the Zimmerman case,” Baez told Lauren Rowe on WKMG-Channel 6’s “Flashpoint.” The program aired Sunday morning.

Baez said he based his view on the evidence and not on his representing Chris Serino, the lead Sanford police investigator in the case. “I just think looking at the overall case, it’s extremely weak,” Baez said. “I had that opinion from very early on in the case.”

...more at link
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entert ... ent-367105

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

From CTH.......


hooson1st says:
March 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm

The Contaminated testimony of W8

Being a resident of the "cautious" perch at CTH can be a lonely vocation at times. From that vantage point when I look at D-man's two videos encapsulation W8's telephone encounter with Mr Crump, I see the following.

W8 had telephone conversations w/TM the night of the tragedy.
At that point, she knew what she heard, and she knew what she thought she heard, and she did not know of the aftermath.

The following day, at some point she likely heard of TM’s death, and watched some of the news coverage (which was slanted in one direction from the start). She likely heard from some friends may have known of her relationship (whatever it was) with TM, or friends who knew TM in common.

She realizes that she was in telephone contact w/TM up to a short time before his death. What she told her parents has significance, but we don’t know what was said

To the extent she learned of “details” (correct and incorrect), they were incorporated into her memory of the events. The longer that she went unexamined by a professional investigator, the deeper the information learned after the fact may have seeped into her recollective memory bank.

At some point she talked to Tracy and Sybrina. Tracy and Sybrina already had informed an opinion, shrouded in grief and disbelief, and searching for some meaning in this tragedy. Tracy and Sybrina’s opinions and conclusions are in contradiction to the physical evidence that has been revealed so far. What distortion did they unintentionally convey to W8 in their initial contacts with her?

Tracy and Sybrina are in a difficult position, and there is a tendency, once a mind is made up, to hear what you want to hear, and to discount that which you don’t want to hear.

Now lawyer Trump enters the scene. Lawyer Trump wants to know what W8 knows. He also wants to see if W8 can provide corroboration for elements of a civil lawsuit.

What he learns from Tracy and Sybrina is hearsay. What Tracy and Sybrina learned from W8 is hearsay that may have been contaminated by news reports.

So now lawyer Crump questions W8, not in person, but over the telephone, and shows absolutely no interest in critical questioning of what she knows for sure, and what she may have learned after the fact. [btw - the same goes for the BDLR interview w/W8]. Not only that, lawyer Crump is so sure of what W8 will say to him that he invites a reporter team from a major network to sit in on his “first” interview with W8.

When lawyer Crump in questioning W8 hears a phrase he wants to hear, or did not hear a phrase he expected to hear, he leads the unseen witness.

In referring to what she allegedly told Tracy and/or Sybrina (i.e. hearsay) he now wants to have her repeat hearsay herself.
This is not only a crummy way to question a witness, it evidently is the “Crumpy” way.
Hearsay upon hearsay without critical examination.

There is a lot of speculation at CTH on a conspiracy, and intentional lying by witnesses, prosecutors, reporters and politicians.

From my lonely perch I see a lot of ineptitude wrapped up in a collision of political agendas and personal interests.
There is so much we still don’t know about the evidence that is knowable. I remain cautious. The only thing that can possibly explain this so far is “chaos theory”.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Thanks. i have been trying (badly) to make a point about the straight out “Contamination” of this witness.
(I will quote you at RT if I may)
I don’t know that it EXCLUDES all “conspiracies though?

I do agree about contamination and CRUMP as “an officer of the Court” and a “Private Attorney General (In waiting)” SHOULD have known better than to go anywhere near a potential key witness in a murder case.
This is just plain nuts.
It is interrogation, crime investigation and Lawyerin’ 1.01 to make every effort to question a witness BEFORE there is any chance of contamination. Just contamination from what she might have heard in the media as well as associates of her and Trayvon, plus major contamination by ANYBODY actually closely involved in the case.
DeeDee’s questioning should have been by skilled LE interviewer and It SHOULD have been straight after the incident.. but if LE really did miss this key witness.. and Tracy “found her”… then LE SHOULD have been given her name.. before amateur investigation to locate and talk to her.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

To me all it also shows that Crump was only concerned with a civil suit. Because of this he may have in fact, screwed the State's case due to witness contamination. As much fun we make of Crump he is not a stupid lawyer, he was fully aware what would happen to the criminal case. Like at lot of things in this case, people are putting their own self-interests first, damn the consequences.

I respect SD, all the work he has put into this case and the website, but he keeps bringing up MOM and how damaged he is. The fact is that unless SD has knowledge that MOM knew, there was over 150 thousand dollars in the PayPal account he is wrong. At most MOM knew the account contained 37 thousand which GZ told MOM he tried to transfer out, because GZ and his friend said they would not reveal how much more was on the account. GZ and his friend planned to conceal the rest of the money without MOM's knowledge. The prosecution is not charging GZ with perjury because they can't GZ never testified about the contents of the PayPal account, as such they can't charge MOM with anything, first communications are privileged and what the prosecution has is a recorded conversation which is hearsay. GZ can't testify against MOM without first incriminating himself, yes I planed to defraud the State and my lawyer. Unless SD has some personal knowledge he is not disclosing, he is blowing this far out of proportion to make a point, and because he does not like MOM. I guess we are all human.

Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest.

Still OBSESSED with the CTH... still no Bannings from Site Madam?

As always with this case (all cases) they pick out some little thing to worry about .. but MISS the wider picture.

They pick through some posting at CTH.... are constant avid readers....but, the discussion here goes WAY over their heads. Their poor English skills mean they do not comprehend what is being discussed anyway.

They get a lot of their reports from Teeto.

As you can see from the posts of hers I have quoted.. she is not very bright, and so the hapless cretins get a very garbled version of what goes on here.... filtered through Teeto

Treepers = JQ Heroes?


Quoted posts and discussion of JQ go to...........
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=63&p=25014#p25014


Please stick broadly to the GZ case in this thread



If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Bori, didnt SD say way back that he had seen the bond stuff? IIRC and might be wrong, I was thinking he said that GZ had to stay with MOM due to the way the bond was written.

It is very evident that SD does not like Omara. I just pray that what they know that we dont will see this thru. I am not a legal person and some things dont make sense, yet I am not stupid. There are alot of things that we are not privy too. I know SD has done alot of investigation on the ground, but there are alot that the Def has that possibly we will NEVER see. Having said that, I think / pray there are things being done and done for a reason.

Thanks for my Flag Rumpole. Love it!!!!

Glad you like the flag

But as I have said.. you can choose any avatar image at all... I'll change it... or you can.




I'm not comfortable talking about SD here. I don't agree with everything he posts.. I have posted minor things at CTH in replies to him.

Overall, his heart and his head are in the right place... big time.

I know people disagree over the O'Mara thing... several have said so here and at CTH.

It is reasonable to state where opinion differs from SD.... several people have done that here.....

...... but I think it would be better to explore that with SD at CTH


IMO we are "stuck with" O'Mara until the trial at least.

IF that goes badly.. there will be very MUCH in the way of recriminations on several fronts.. including the representation that MOM and WEST provided...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light