Even though I'm new here myself, let me say Welcome!! I'm looking forward to discussing this case with fair, openminded and logical people.

Not sure where GZ is headed with this new judge, can only wait and see. I was taken back with Judge Lester's comments, way over the top and biased IMO. And yet, he got great reviews before this case. All GZ can hope for is Nelson doesn't bow to "outside" forces.

Hehe thanks. =) Been meaning to sign up for awhile but had totally forgotten until flgirl reminded me.

Also of interest (And is the kind of thing that I dare not post on JQ as I'll get accused of "baiting" again lol), I know someone that in a few minutes research found 10 rulings by Nelson that was overturned by the 5th DCA.

And if she denies the Motion of Immunity at the Dennis Hearing, the same 5th DCA that granted the Writ of Prohibition will be the one that gets to overlook her ruling.

Yes clearly baiting in the Trayvon Zone... way off message

But, having said that... it would be nice to upset them with the news....

... back here in the real world... those are extremely interesting FACTS.

BTW you weren't baiting when you tried to get past the auto-disagree and point out that discovery is still coming from the State (overdue the deadline I believe)... so there has been no delaying tactics from O'Mara...

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Not baiting ... just want an honest answer from any of us.
Did I read, I think, that Z. did his mentoring of black children as part of his court ordered resolution to one of his hearings ... so he wouldn't do any jail time?
Can anyone help here ... in either camp? Just the side of TRUTH??
The truth should help us decide ... not that WE matter. The Jury will decide.

Trayvon zone LOL... They dare not venture out into the real world, because the facts would shatter
the narrative they have all come to believe.

It's not difficult to see where Truthiness was going with her point. Why take a deposition and than later the SA turns over more evidence that needs to be addressed. What then, waste more time taking another deposition. Why should the SA not have turned over all they have by now? What's with the slow motion releases? What's left to investigate? Seems to me they were on a fishing expedition, not a truth finding mission. What the heck does GZ's HS records have to do with this case?

Maybe people "bring stuff here" because over there one side of the discussion is shut down.... posters are bullied mercilessly by "fellow" posters and the admin have institutionalised censorship and hypocritical bullying.... just sayin'

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

No, Joni...I don't believe it had anything to do with his court dealings...this is allegedly something he and his missus did on their own..Only this is the word of his mother...I've seen nothing that supports or denies it...but as we have learned....it appears they all have mistruths in that

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/justice/f ... index.html

George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.

I am not sure if I wouldn't respond in some way if someone was following me on my way home from the store. WHAT could BE THEIR AGENDA? Very scary! WHY were they doing that? Why didn't they tell me at the outset ... they were an "official" if they were when they could sense trouble brewing? Tol Did he ever? Obviously too late. Wouldn't that simple sentence HALT this whole thing? Is that what Z. wanted -- or was it? Again, his judgement???

We ALL know, (game playing), in a vehicle, then on foot? ***A VERY DETERMINED preditor I would think.*** Doesn't Z. have anger issues? Does he make good decisions?

What would YOU have done if being followed...? Lay down for the agressor? I wouldn't! Minding my own business - and someone coming into my space?
Wondering what is the law of the jungle here regarding stalker and prey? WE ARE ANIMALS. Doesn't prey do everything they can to live ... run, fight, etc.? (Life and death fight BTW).

I just don't get it all. One starts everything in motion ... then prey responds maybe... (who knows how - verbally or physically? We weren't there and NO witinesses to that), so we don't know do we about the inception of the fight - only Z.'s version? It seems a "given" here that Z. threw the first blow. Why?
How come, because G. said so? What ELSE is he going to say if wanting a SELF DEFENSE case? But IF SO ... why would T. just start a fight - out of the blue? Pushed/forced into it?

Maybe the bottom line here is that many believe George. I look at their history ... (people are consistent) and I just don't believe him. He would have us all think he was Dr. Jekyll that night, but we know too he is Mr. Hyde.

WHO WAS HE THAT NIGHT? MHO

BRBM There is nothing to support this statement. This nonsense about GZ detaining TM is just that, nonsense. TM had all ready turned down the T and was out of sight when GZ got out of his car. TM should have been long gone by the time GZ got to the T. Why was TM anywhere near the T?

Why all the buzz words? Prey...come on...

BBM how about calling 911 or high tailing out of there when he lost GZ and get to the safety of his house. Maybe getting off the phone with DD and call Dad or have DD call 911. How about ringing a neighbors bell (let's not forget TM knew some of them, played ball right there). Please explain why TM was anywhere near the T when GZ got there?

If I'm to believe your scenario, (I'll include some of the better used buzzed words for effect as well), TM was a scared, terrified, petrified, afraid, unarmed, innocent child who was being stalked by Mr. Hyde (that's a new one), paranoid, lunatic, crazed, scary, pyscho. Yet TM was still at the T when he had sufficient time to get home. Why???

OMG, now Baez's opinion is being used as if his expertise is to be valued..GMAB

....SNIP.... to address final point BBM

Why don't you believe him, Joni?

Only media hype and forum hysteria have suggested he is anything other that normal in regards lying.. we all have lied.

He PASSED a voice stress test.. not admissible as evidence, but a good clue never-the-less.

He has told a CONSISTENT story (with the expected variations you EXPECT from a witness telling the TRUTH, especially one having experience such dramatic events). He was forthright and willing to talk to police. His narrative AGREES with EVERY witness... even Dee Dee at a pinch (And that fairy tale will be altered anyway).

On top of all that... as I keep saying... if you DON'T believe GZ who are you going to believe instead? THERE IS NO OTHER VERSION!! No TM version. No version at all supported by evidence. The prosecution can not lay charges of what they think might have happened... Prosecution are subject to different rules from Defence.. they CAN NOT do a Baez and just make up an opening statement.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

In the Trayvon Zone... Baez opinion is a valid thing to quote in support...

(Funny how he is JBaez now? Not Bozo or a variation... seems name calling has a limited use-by date, next thing you know he will be "Mr Baez" He could be a Prosecution consultant? Knows a thing or two about those nasty defence lawyer types))

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I, for one, find it refreshing to have freedom of speech.

flgirl Hi.
Didn't realize I am using buzz words... just how I feel. I never ever play games and that is the truth.

I don't know how they were near each other ... I just don't know. Did T. step behind a bush to see if he was still going to follow him on foot? Jump out? I don't know.

Z seems to me IS both though... D. J. and Mr. Hyde. Sometimes Z. is so very soft spoken, laid back and seems so gentle ... and yet sometimes seems wild and aggressive ... doesn't he? Resisted arrest??? That just came to mind as I wrote. Two people ... two extremes?

Darn shame no one was there at the beginning to see if that's where the crux of this case lies. Might have been helpful.

Is there ANY way to tell who that was calling for help? I thought it was T. because Z. had a gun. Not an even match?

SO MANY questions. I hope many of them are answered for the Jury and that they come up with the proper verdict.

Hi Joni, So much has been exaggerated about GZ with negative connotations to the extreme and so much has been exaggerated about TM with positive connotations to the extreme.

Has GZ screwed up in the past, absolutely. But realistically, is he really a violent, aggressive person? He was 21 hrs old, had to much to drink, not unlike many 21 year olds. He was charge with resisting arrest "without violence". He and his girlfriend filed restraining orders against each other, again 21 years old, 7 years ago, no domestic violence complaints were filed. Much of the other media reports were from unnamed sources and were nothing more than rumor. Where are the other violent incidents in the last 7 years? To me, GZ is soft spoken, laid back and gentle like you said. Where did you find him wild and aggressive?

As far as the scream, IMO, I truly believe they were GZ. LE reported hearing GZ say he was yelling for help and no one would help (remember witness John confirms this). To me, this is an excited utterance. At that point in time, GZ had no way of knowing the screams were overheard on the 911 call and he had no way of knowing what the witnesses saw or heard.

Why was TM anywhere near the T? Was TM baiting GZ? Was TM looking for a fight? Was TM an angry kid? I don't buy that 3 suspensions-1 for truancy,1 for drug pipe and traces of pot, 1 for vandalism- unidentified jewelry in his backpack, pot use, are normal teenage behavior, this is NOT normal, IMO. Remember, this was all in the last 6 months before his death. I believe there is more, otherwise, why not release his school records to dispel any rumors? Is it important to know more about TM? Yes, I believe so. I think there was something very wrong going on with TM and it has everything to do with what happened that night.

I haven't gone through anyone's histories here or anything (it'll be this weekend before I can get around to making my profile etc here even lol), but I've not seen anyone to indicate anyone believes Trayvon deserved to be shot. It's never been about what he "deserved", only about what is legally justified.

And Florida law says that if you have a reasonable belief that lethal force is needed to prevent serious bodily injury or death, then you're allowed to use it.




I've yet to see anything that proves any attempt to detain or approach Trayvon. George indicated no desire to do so on the NEN call. The encounter took place within line of sight of George's truck, 20-30 seconds walk away. I've seen nothing to indicate that George wanted to do anything beyond help the Police. Even getting out of the truck was in direct response to dispatcher asking where Trayvon ran.

Massad Ayoob has done a seminar recently on the SYG laws in which he says that once you're pinned to the ground, disparity of force comes into play due to position of advantage, where fists become deadly weapons justifying use of lethal force in self defense. Because of this, W6 alone almost guarantees George gets acquitted. Unless the State can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that George wasn't on the ground taking injury from Trayvon until he believed he needed to use lethal force to prevent serious bodily injury, George has to be acquitted under Florida law. The State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn't act in self defense before the jury can even move on to consider whether or not a few curse words adds up to a depraved mind.

Quite right, Truthiness

I did post the Massad Ayoob video ... before you joined (p. 41)... well worth bringing forward.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Massad Ayoob has mentioned in the past too that he might testify on George's behalf, which would be a huge boon to the defense. He's got decades of experience training others in the use of firearms, including Law Enforcement, he's articulate, and could spell out exactly for the jury why someone in George's position would justify George pulling the trigger.