In a street brawl ... might it be possible that at one time one is on top of the other...
and at another time, reversed positions?
Who knows what power a gun might weild? I might listen if a guy ordered me around...
pointing a gun at me and God only knows what was being said by both. This as we know, WAS a fight to the death.
George said I think that he only pulled it out at the end.

I do wonder if the police had their sirens on because I read they were coming in the front entrance just as Trayvon
was being shot.

From what we know now, I think it should be dismissed in a SYG hearing.

But you are right about the overly involved people. They implode with little things. They will go absolutely crazy if the case is dismissed. LOL

I don't think there were sirens because we didn't hear any on the 911 calls. It seems like they would have been piercing enough to be heard.

Mr. Zimmerman did say he pulled it out right before the shot. That sounds reasonable to me. I understand where he would think Mr. Martin was going after the gun. After being attacked. one would believe that anything was possible because that behavior is out of the realm of normal reaction. I think at that point any movement near the gun would lead one to think he had seen it.

We had a similar case happen in the state I used to live in. Teenagers had thrown rocks at an off duty policeman's house. He chased them and found a young man hiding in the bushes. He told him to come out and when he didn't the policeman pulled him out. There was a scuffle and the young man was asphyxiated. There hasn't been too much released but I think there is some talk about a choke hold.

The police officer has been charged with manslaughter (voluntary and involuntary), but this didn't happen for awhile and then the officer was released on his own recognizance.

This is another case where I just can't understand the behavior of the young person. In my world someone would just come out of the bushes. But this is another case where two lives have basically been ruined. The police officer was a decorated officer who didn't have a history of overreaction and the young man didn't seem to have any real problems.

This case really shows how biased the media is and how they create the news. Both the officer and the young man were black. It hasn't been lost on anyone that the media isn't crawling all over this story or the usual suspects haven't been staging their usual "indignation" marches.

It was amusing to me that a teacher at his school said that he "majored in cheerfulness". Is that the new stock answer when someone is trying to give a embellish the record of a young person who has problems?

Welcome to RT, flareon

Still a chance to place your bet on Recusal or not

Thank you. I already did. I voted no. I think he should but I don't think he will.

XXXXXX You might see more clearly if you'd look for his (Zimmerman's) narrative of events instead of nitpicking answers to questions that include misinterpretations of what he just tried to explain.

He really doesn't vary from his narrative. Does that make it true? Who knows. But his version is consistent, it's hampered only by questions which misstate his previous answers.

How many times did he tell Singleton the circling was when he was at TTL, and the circling is not the same event as the one when Trayvon first approached his car at the clubhouse? At least 3 by my count.

Who cares whether it's by the clubhouse or at the clubhouse? Maybe he also stopped at the mailboxes. This is the night of the event and the next day and he's trying to recount a traumatic event step by step. That’s difficult for anyone to do.

I make my clients “walk me” through traffic stops and arrests and searches step by step, as close as possible to the event, before their memories fade. They get frustrated, they want to tell the main points and I want baby steps, in sequence. Getting the exact events for a traffic stop can take 3 hours of questioning, and there is no trauma like an assault or death involved. GZ was interviewed for less than two hours, by an officer not familiar with the neighborhood, who hadn’t been to the scene, who kept mixing things up when she repeated what she thought he had said. He started out trying to give her the main points, not knowing to distinguish between point A and point B. When she mixes the two up, he is quick to correct her on all points. He also corrects Serino on the dispatcher not instructing him not to follow Trayvon

He never varies on where Trayvon attacked him, when TM ran, that he cried out for help, that the guy who came out went back in to call 911 instead of helping him . That he was attacked for no reason, out of nowhere. That he kept asking for the police to come. That he never confronted or intended to confront TM, he expected police to do that. That he thought he was responding to the dispatcher’s questions when he got out of the car – to get an address and see which way Trayvon had run.

The jury won’t nitpick this. Why? Because it’s all pretty irrelevant to the charges: Did Trayvon attack him, and when he shot him, did he reasonably believe himself to be in danger of serious bodily injury or death?

No matter where he was, there’s no indication he did anything to provoke Martin’s use of force against him. And even if the jury thinks he did, it still has to acquit him unless it finds he had some other lesser means of extricating himself from danger posed by Trayvon’s fracturing his nose and banging his head into cement.

Witness 6 says TM was on top and GZ was trying to get up and couldn’t. GZ says every time he tried to sit up and get out from under TM, TM would slam his head back down. He has injuries, they don’t have to be life-threatening. What reasonable person wouldn’t fear serious bodily injury if unable to stop the attack? What other means did he have at his disposal – regardless of whether TM saw his gun and was reaching for it?

Keep in mind, GZ’s belief that TM had seen his gun and was reaching for it doesn’t have to be real; it just has to be reasonable and he really had to have believed it.

He had no way out from under TM. If he reasonably feared serious bodily injury or death, whether the aggressor or not at that point, he’s justified in using lethal force.

You are using a microscope to critique points I doubt will make a difference in terms of disproving his defense. Just look though the big lens and see the whole picture. I think it’s right in front of you.

That really doesn't seem to make sense to me. So if someone winds up killing James Holmes, for example, say a family member of one of his victims, then that would make Holmes a "victim" and no one could discuss the people he's killed?

I looked up Stand- your-ground law on Wikipedia. Here is a tiny bit of it. Looks like even the experts are split on everything about it. I am not sure I like it ... not that that matters.

waltherppk says:
August 2, 2012 at 10:09 am

The only right thing for Florida to do would be to end this travesty of justice which has been perpetrated and dismiss the Scott-Bondi-Corey authored bogus and politically motivated not evidence based criminal indictment information against George Zimmerman, put a recognizance bond on Zimmerman and send the case to a Grand Jury as should have been done in the first place. Less than that solution is unacceptable garbage and Florida should be ashamed of what it has done creating and perpetuating a conspicuous travesty of justice. This case has destroyed public confidence in state administration of justice by exposing the corruption and brazen conspiracy involving agents of the state to deny the rights of an accused to a fair and impartial process. Should there have been a thorough and professional investigation of the death of Trayvon Martin ?….Absolutely…and IF there were any evidence supported suspicions of foul play, (not mere unsubstantitated speculations and conjecture) THEN the case should properly have gone to a GRAND JURY for a full investigation as a judicially proper inquiry completely absent the politics and greed and racism which all have caused the present fiasco. What has occurred from the moment Angela Corey was “praying with the Martin family” is absolutely improper, prejudicial, unlawful, and unconstitutional, and there is no way to make a silk purse of that sows ear. Process is irretrievably and irreversibly tainted and comprimised on the course which improperly brought a politically motivated “information” as the mechanism for charging George Zimmerman. A federal court will likely and SHOULD later make this finding, and if not then that federal court is corrupt also. This case is like a litmus test for the courts to see whether or not there is any integrity there. And so far Florida has miserably failed that litmus test.