Thanks for your information WKC690.

I am leaning more and more toward DeOrr not ever being at the campsite. I could be wrong. Sheriff Bowerman has generally portrayed this case as being worked as a child missing on the mountain with no nefarious elements, Bowerman portrays a man who expected to recover a body or find the boy, he believed Vernon and Jessica because they are community members and they had two "witnesses" .

Yet, Bowerman is fully aware that due to mental incompetence neither the grandfather or Isaac are material witnesses.


I believe Vernon and Jessica have been the subject of an underlying investigation that Bowerman is just now shedding a little public light on.


The parents phone pings have to be evidence. Bowerman knows where they were leading up to their camping trip. I just don't buy that Bowerman mistook Vernon and Jessica for cooperating persons of interest. Parents are always suspects, always, until they can be through evidence cleared. Even in Mayberry Jessica and Vernon would be spotlighted by Sheriff Andy.

Vilt walking away in such a public manner, calling Vernon and Jessica liars, and stating that Vilt believes that Jessica and Vernon are the answer to DeOrr's disappearance speaks volumes. There is a reason that Jessica and Vernon are not suing the pants off of Vilt,my guess is that there is information they do not want made public or made to defend.


It sounds to me like the spotlight is narrowing.


Do you know if cadaver dogs were used to search the family home?


I hope to see arrests soon.

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Any theory is valid only as far as known facts do not discredit it. Logical (scientific) theories are defined by the fact that they are open to be DISPROVED. They are held as TRUE only until new facts do not fit into the theory, at which point the theory is MODIFIED to embrace new evidence, or else it is abandoned. (replaced with new theory if possible)

Having said that.. until some new evidence comes to light I am convinced that the camping trip went as has been described up to the point (Friday around mid-day), where the parents and Deorr headed back to the Timber Creek camping ground from the store in Leadore. At some time during that journey Deorr died, likely at the hands of one of his parent(s), and they disposed of his body somewhere between Leadore and Timber Creek. The witnesses at the camp site (IR and GGD) are at best unreliable.. both gullible and easily led, open to suggestion of a (false) narrative. IMO Deorr never returned to the Camp site after the store.. so all of the GGD and IR points are RED HERRINGS. Neither GGD nor IR are important to the evidence of a crime. They are both at best pawns being used to lay a false trail. They were NOT at the "scene of the crime" (which was somewhere miles from the camp site). They are not witnesses at all as far as the crime goes. They were not there. The fine detail of who was where and the "time-line" are irrelevant chatter. Details of dogs and searches etc.. all irrelevant. Again.. I am not criticizing SAR efforts at all. They were given a FALSE report they put in great effort no doubt, but Deorr (Deorr's body) was not there to find, no matter how well they searched.
(as an aside: All GREAT stuff for True Gossip Forums. Red herrings and irrelevant stuff are their specialty)
The parents had all the time necessary during the trip back from the store to kill and dispose of a small body.
They did arrive (without Deorr) back at campsite after 1:00PM.. maybe 1:30. They DID go for a stroll. Then they pretended that Deorr had now vanished while they were strolling. They raised the alarm and went through the motions of an initial search before calling 911 at around 2:28.. Dad's dash to get better phone signal may have been true ( I accept that as a reason).. or he may have headed off to dump some small item? I dont see that as very important either way.
At this point unless Deorr's body is found, or the parents confess, I dont see any progress in the investigation. Even if the body is found i dont see the parents being charged (let alone convicted) unless the parents confess.
The parallels with Casey Anthony case are still very relevant...
Before Caylee's body was found there was a MOUNTAIN of physical and circumstantial evidence against Casey .. she was under arrest and imprisoned remember... there were RELIABLE witnesses, phone pings etc which revealed timelines of events (down to seconds at many points). When the remains were found there was yet more evidence. A huge amount of evidence linking the remains to Casey and The Anthony home (expected), but also links to the death and treatment of the body by Casey. Still Casey was acquitted. Unfortunately in this case none of that evidence is available, nothing like that sort of evidence is ever likely to be part of this case. I just dont see the parents being held to account, unless one or both confess.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

but Deorr (Deorr's body) was not there to find, no matter how well they searched.

I think that is accurate.

Your timeline sounds like a good possibility.

I did not pay any attention the the Casey Anthony case so other than knowing she was a liar and a head case who many found attractive I don't know much. I do know she was to many attractive and they were beguiled by her lies rather than repulsed by them, somehow I don't think Vernon and Jessica would have that "get out of jail free card" in their hand.

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Dont sweat it Carm.. it was a grubby case made worse by the travesty of justice at verdict time.


I guess it served me well in-so-far-as it is what got me online (to WS )

I "made my posting bones" on the CA case

As well as the "mechanics" of online comments and discussion, I learned a lot about evidence, the judicial system etc. Also learned about willful ignorance


IF Deorr's parents are ever charged.. they should get on the phone to Jose Baez, ask him to handle the case.

He should seek them out himself.. money for old rope.. he can probably just recycle a lot of the paperwork he did for Anthony case.

If Casey is prepared to take a break from "La Bella Vita"... she could be a legal and general consultant

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Also learned about willful ignorance

Ain't that the truth

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Klein agreed to do a "fb interview"
Which to my mind is a bit "off" On one hand people bemoan the (mostly wrong) rumor-mongering on "Social Media".. the next thing you know they are donkey-deep in it themselves. I dont see the NEED for a genuine investigation to share (some) findings with the chattering masses on fb. But having saind that, then there were (just a few) interesting answers

Klein Investigations and Consulting
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/


Bella's Friends: Unidentified and Missing Children Community
https://www.facebook.com/bellasfriendsu ... cation=ufi


Note, Rumpole
It seems Klein includes the trip TO the store in his TL. My theory stands, even if the death occurred on the way to the store/before they got to the store, rather than the return trip.









WELL DONE Mr Klein for pointing out that many of the questions pertain to irrelevant ("sideshow") issues.

That is the STUFF of True Gossip Forums (and fb)
I saw one daft soul who upon seeing Klein's reply opined "he didn't understand the question"
Ya just can not keep willful ignorance down.. facts WONT do it!! They just deny them.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I don't want to fuel a rumor (pun intended), but there is a POSSIBILITY that they disposed of the body by cremating it (using diesel fuel as an accelerant). It is just a theory... I await more evidence.
It does NOT change the over-all theory and timeline of events.... just they may have burned rather than buried, or simply dumped the body.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Those who have taken the creation rumor as fact, now see the crime as much worse.
As we saw in the Anthony case (and the Chism case)... no matter WHAT "indignities" you subject a dead body to... it is NOT regarded as much of a crime. In the Chism case, the likely rape of the victim (with a stick) was NOT considered a crime at all since the victim had likely died just prior. In Casey Anthony's case, there was little doubt that she drove around with Caylee's body decomposing in the trunk of her car. She definitely DID dump the body as if it were a mere plastic bag of garbage... it was suggested that she should be charged with some sort of "tampering with a dead body" crime.. but as I recall there was little other than a misdemeanor (and fine) that even might have applied.
The crime in the Deorr Kunz case is yet to be determined. Was it an accident? Was there negligence or was it just an unfortunate accident? Was it unintentional (heat of the moment) killing (manslaughter).. or premeditated? Murder 1? Murder2? It could (be claimed at a pinch) that Deorr succumbed to some childhood disease.. flu etc... perhaps parents merely negligent in not seeking medical help?
The point I am trying to make is that EVEN IF the parents cremated the remains it does not CHANGE the cause of death, nor the crime. if any, involved in that death. (Unless the parents doused Deorr in Diesel Fuel and set fire to him alive.. and NOBODY is suggesting that)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Here is a PRIME example of what I have been saying about True Gossip Forums/posters
(I'll withhold name. I am making a GENERAL point and not trying to embarrass just one (daft) individual)


THIS is Twilight Zone stuff... a supposition out of NOWHERE that the poster pulls out their ass.

This is NOT discussion.. it is baseless gossip. It is NOT a theory. It is NOT an opinion. This is the sort of shit people post then justify with the old adage "everyone is entitled to an opinion"

She says it "Makes her sick typing it"... right... but she goes ahead and types it anyway

"An Opinion" ceases to be an opinion when it is shown to be contrary to reality.
It is "willful ignorance" and not opinion, when based on things you invent/make up in the first place

Examples of willful ignorance(delusion) and NOT opinion:
Deorr was abducted by Space Aliens.
Deorr was kidnapped by Gypsies
Deorr was enslaved by a child porn group (that comprised his two parents, GGD, and IR )

Until Forum posters (or at least the owners/admin) come to grips with what comprises rational discussion based on facts, and not wild specualion and baseless supposition, they are DOOMED to remain as True Gossip (as opposed to True Crime) Forums

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Watching the "delusionals" are ya' Rumpole

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Yeah

They have ONE positive (besides good for laughs)... crowd sourcing.. lots of people to spot news updates/developments.
The links are appreciated.. the "discussion" is not


They are all a bit confused (and depressed) at the moment.. all their "brilliant sleuthing" has been shown to be wrong/red herrings/ classified as a "sideshow"

Speaking of "Red Herrings"... they were way down a sidetrack...literally discussing fish
(the ins and outs of "Minnows" since Vernal mentioned them (in passing) )

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Some months ago I spent a couple days a doing a timeline which included calling my Florida SAR pal who I knew had spent time there with a group searching small interconnected waterways looking for underground caverns which are his specialty. They left disgusted with idea the father was involved and hoped it wouldn't be years before the answers came.

They found NO proof the boy was at the camp, trying to recall what he said about store clerk. Authorities using pic to ID kid got sent on a wild goose chase for a different truck but never proved kid had been there when parents said either. The pic at the restaurant was not local to campsite...they started searching waterways between the restaurant & campsite ...found nada but got tons of grief from locals for their troubles.


Any timeline stuff assuming the boy was at the camp is tainted. Neither the friend or grandfather would speak against distraught parents saying child was there even if they didn't see him. Both of them are 'old fashioned' if you will in the sense of mind your own business and if you don't have anything good to say then say nothing. When I raised grandpa babysitting my pal LOL "maybe he babysat a blankie but he never communicated the convos with the child (the dad attributed to him) to LE.

This guy is one of the SAR that looked for Caylee. There are no words for the grief he felt knowing he drove right by the location she was found at after visiting with the grandparents on more than one occaision. The first visit was asking every water location the parents knew Casey had been to, subsequent visits showed a map with hundreds of marked searches looking for places she knew near water. They searched retention ponds near every place Casey every lived, worked or went to school. Their find ratio is so high that it seems important to keep the failures to find in perspective especially in this case where the child is still missing. If the dad is involved my hope is that he will speak up to let the healing begin.

Hi LR
THX for the info.
I think it's pretty clear the child did NOT wander off from the camp site. The search, no matter how thorough was pointed at the WRONG location. They found no trace because there was no trace to be found at that location. The child was killed and body disposed of some distance away.
I am picking the child and parents did arrive at camp site Thursday evening, though even that is not proved in my mind. The parents left camp early Friday morning (8 AM according to Klein), ostensibly to visit store in Leadore.. I think with child alive when they set out, but maybe not?? I do think they disposed of the body (and likely killed the child) somewhere between Leadore and Timber Creek camp.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

This is like too many cases, even if the perpetrators talk or the child's body is found we won't know the true story. Sadly my hope that this child is alive living a better life is dwindling and the latest round of LE announcements sorta obliterated it. I can't fathom a parent giving away a child like a puppy but some tiny part of me hopes this baby is growing up to be a real ranch hand in need of a bigger pair of cowboy boots by now.

Here is Jessica's 911 call... posted before



Article (and comments)
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/mo ... -find-him/

East Idaho News audio - FULL call
http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-cont ... 1-Call.mp3

I have not heard Vernal's nor GGP, but Vernal's at least may be out there?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

/me whistles and thinks about a date he has been given in march to go up with ATV / Horseback access and an official F&G official to accompany. But we have to wait for some thaw to take place frankly.

I hate the reason for the trip and the planning. But if nothing else it will be a nice three day spring camping trip and training for my son on how to handle himself in the wilderness

_________________
The most fundamental and major decision that you have to make in your life is this: Do I live in a friendly or a hostile universe? Which is it?

I hope the "camping" side of the trip works out well...

And wish you luck finding some "evidence"... but of course that will overshadow the camping.

I understand WHY horseback this time of year..... but I think later it would be an idea to travel by car/truck .. a similar vehicle... to see things the way they would.. same points of access etc.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Bump
I haven't seen any update on things.....

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I get links via Google watch, got three today. All I am seeing are the international sites picking up that the parents are suspected to know something. Same news.