"Never there" was something I suggested early on. As with all theories it could be tested against evidence especially what the FOUR adults said in police interviews. We dont have that info, I am just assuming that Cops would be on to that, and they dont seem to be.
FOUR adults conspiring to tell a completely fabricated story seems unlikely.

And dogs!!
Dogs, like people, come in degrees of competence and experience. In court cases (such as Casey Anthony) a dogs training/experience/success rate is scrutinized. I heard mention of 2 local dogs. How good are they? How many live people/dead bodies have they found? There were possessions (blankie) of Deorr there...so no scent at camp site is just not true. No trail? Could be reasons for that. Lots of extraneous (human and natural) smells around a camp site. And body in fast moving water likely leaves no scent trail.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Praying for answers for everyone involved.

This kind of case is always upsetting, largely because you don't know which direction to look - kidnapping, wild animals, not there in the first place, water nearby, etc. - so many possibilities and a child's life may already have been lost while you have to keep guessing about what could have happened.

I think you are right, Rumpole, searching the water is not necessarily good enough to discount the possibility of drowning.

Sadly, I keep looking at the pictures and thinking about a depressing possibility: searchers often think they are looking for a complete, intact body; but this was a small child and the pictures are of a swift stream with rocks and other barriers that will literally tumble and potentially pulverize a small body. There may not be something that most of us would consider very recognizable. And if so, there wouldn't be a large deposit of smell for the dogs to pick up on, either.

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She is not where she was, she is not where she is going, but she is on her way...

Hi Sue.
Sadly there are too many cases of missing children never solved.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I've done some reading and watched some videos and I agree that it is difficult to know which direction to look in. I think the reservoir that the creek leads into is as good of a possibility as any other. I didn't like that the dad over talked the mother and barely let her speak. I also thought it was odd that the PI who is a friend of DeOrr Sr. referred to DeOrr in the past tense. The PI also said that cadaver and search dogs were brought in and that the search dogs did not pick up DeOrr's scent at the camp. Quality of search dogs unknown.

Too many hmmms... for me to have an opinion. So very sad.

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

yeah, Carm.. lots of Hmmmms.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

FWIW (not a great deal)
I have become VERY cynical and suspicious about videos of grieving "victims" reporting missing/dead "loved ones"
Maybe partly as a reaction to the Mindless "dont bash victim" Mobs at forums being the opposite and accepting of what supposed "victims" say, but mostly because the initial presumed "victim" has turned out to be the "Perp" eventually in many cases.

So.... I look at such initial interviews with a very cynical/skeptical eye. I guess I presume "guilt" to some extent, and take a LOT of convincing to eliminate the "grieving" parents or spouses or whoever.

It is FAR from conclusive proof of anything, but the parents of Deorr passed that initial "sniff test".

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I thought the dad acted odd, almost excitable and he certainly didn't let the mom speak, but that could be his nature and the nature of their relationship. When asked how long they were gone she said 10 minutes and he said "50 yards" it was an odd moment. They may just be grieving parents and he may just be an odd guy. The great grandfather is on oxygen, the great grandfather's friend seems odd.

Would I leave an almost 3 year old alone with an old man and an odd man at a campsite, next to a creek, on top of a drop off. Not on your life, not even for 1 minute, life changes on a dime. Sadly some lessons come at a great cost.

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If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

I see comments from people "pining their hopes" on "hunters" finding Deorr's remains.

I think they miss the point somewhat.

It is true that on occasion hunters have been the ones to find remains, but that is because hunters happened to venture into areas not previously searched, perhaps not even considered, at the time somebody went missing. Hunters are NOT as a group "better" at searching than professional searchers, or even alert volunteers. It would not help, for instance, to bring in a squad of "certified rabbit hunters" as opposed to trained searchers and volunteers, to re-search the area close to Timber Creek Campsite.

Hunters are NOT likely to be hunting CLOSE to human activity... game generally stays clear of such sites, and of course responsible hunters would NOT be firing guns (or arrows) anywhere near a campsite.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Well, my theories on this case are not the popular ones, so I've hesitated to state them, but here goes. I've been keeping up with this case since the first day it broke. I did a lot of reading, watched the videos, viewed the photos, poured over the message boards, and I'm sorry to say that when it comes to the parents's story (or lack of one), I see big red flags.

I don't think the great grandfather or his friend had anything to do with this, but I feel that the parents know where the little boy's body is and how he got where ever he is. I am not saying they are directly responsible for his death, though one of my worst theories (based on the store clerk sighting of a man in a black truck with a little blonde boy who was filthy and bawling) involves the father losing his temper with the child. I hate even thinking about it, but it is one of my theories. If it were not for the Stage Shop store sighting, (which the family did visit), I would not have formed that theory. I am pretty sure LE knows all about this sighting and knows if it's legit. From one of the other message boards, I learned that the store clerk refuses to do any interviews with the press after she spoke to LE. Perhaps LE told her not to speak to anyone else and if the siting was little Deorr and his dad, I can certainly see why.

My other theories involve an accident/not an intentional act - the child falling into water, being left in a hot car - then a cover-up - hiding the body out of panic and fear. And then another theory involves something that happened right before the camping trip, then covered up. I sincerely hope these theories end up just theories and not the truth, but these are my gut feelings after reading countless cases involving children and what little facts we have on hand concerning this case.

I am not one who accuses lightly, I do not take any kind of pleasure from it. A little child has most likely died and he didn't just vanish into thin air. That is what I care about. I have studied and weighed the facts and my theories are my opinions only.

The interview with the parents was a long one, yet what facts did we learn from it? Hardly any! We didn't even learn, at that time, what day they arrived at the campsite. We didn't learn that until over a month later. The father constantly talked over the mother, he went on and on about the most useless details, they never once mentioned that Reinwand was present on the camping trip, the father wasted so much time gushing over the search efforts, the list goes on. A whole lot of nothing. One big run around, is how I saw it.

There were many dogs and different types of dogs from different organizations that searched the campsite. Apparently none picked up the scent of the little boy. Could all the dogs be wrong?

There's more I wanted to say, but I'm having a guest over soon, must bake something, gotta run. Thanks for reading!

THX suzet.

The way I see things now is that there are three BROAD scenarios of what MIGHTt have happened. Some sub-plots within those

1. Deorr dead prior to arrival, never at the Timber Creek Campsite.

2. Deorr wandered off from Camp, remains not found.

3. Deorr abducted. Still alive (at time he was 1st missing)

All three involve theories. All 3 can be (have potential to be) DISPROVED by evaluation against the evidence we know, and more importantly suggest evidence we still need to discover in order to evaluate their veracity (truth of the matter).

NOTES:
1. We may NEVER get an answer as to what happened.
2. "Occam's Razor" is always a handy tool to employ. Gnomesayin?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have already outlined my reasons for abduction by human being a VERY unlikely scenario.

I also think (with evidence known) that "Not ever at camp" is almost as unlikely.

It requires all 4 adults in some sort of conspiracy. To be mistaken about, if not lying about, events Thursday and Friday. It would amount to all 4 being open to charges of murder/accessory to murder, with long prison sentence (maybe life) applicable.Cops would likely inform/warn interviewees of the penalties for perjury, and for accessory to murder.
I think if cops had even a hint that that was the case, then each of the 4 would have been repeatedly interviewed separately from the outset. Inconsistency in statements would have given the show away (IMO). The individual intense interviews never happened (apparently), or perhaps cops were at least happy with individual interviews. Happy with basic fact that Deorr went missing from Timber Creek Campsite. Cops know far more than me, and all of us opining online.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I am glad you did, suzet, always do post them. This is the most "friendly-forum" for unpopular opinions I know of.

I left WS during the Casey Anthony trial, recently returned to find it worse. I'm not into the FB crime discussions after joining one re Jessica Chambers early on.

Since this is the only forum I follow, your information about what is being discussed at other places is interesting, but I know there are a lot of speculations. I base my thoughts on facts, so my theory that little Deorr could have been abducted, with no facts, is way out there.

And so far, unpopular.

Yes, suzet... what Dakota said.

I am just pushing my opinion... as everybody can


I could SETTLE this case doncha know!!!

All I need do is start a POLL....

I have seen True Gossip Forums in past point to and swear by their polls on cases as being evidence

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Suzet especially since you've read and viewed a heck of a lot more than me on the case.

I still don't have a strong opinion any which way. Too often "grieving" parents turn out to be murderers but then again the wilderness is a great deceiver especially with a fast moving stream and a body of water.

The fact that the employee who saw the filthy crying blonde boy with a man who had a black truck, is not giving any interviews is curious.

Another curious thing was the DeOrr Sr. response to the reporter mentioning the black truck situation, DeOrr immediately said something about "the thing of it is" that he himself has a black truck. I'm a good observer of human nature/behavior and I thought that DeOrr took some amusement about the coincidence. I thought it was one odd moment in an interview filled with odd moments.

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Well...I'll add one more to the pile of 'that's not the answer'

Given the geographic area I say the toddler was not eaten by a gator or croc.

Seems like the more I learn about this situation the more frustrated I am with the Occam's Razor conclusions people are hanging their hats on as the lynchpin to a tidy solution.

*respectfully snipped*
*bolded by me*



It really only requires two of the adults to lie about the child being at the campsite, not all four. Supposedly mom and dad arrived on Thursday night around 9:30 pm. That's what the sheriff said, I believe. I thought maybe they arrived earlier (due to the store sighting at 6 pm) but who knows. So if mom and dad arrived at 9:30 pm and the sleeping arrangements were that mom, dad, and baby slept in the truck (this is what the grandmother said on facebook), and great grandpa slept in the camper, and Weinrand slept in the tent, all the parents had to do was say the baby was sleeping in the car. GGfather and his friend wouldn't need to actually see the child.

The sheriff says the mom, dad, and baby went to the store in the morning... again, they could have left for the store without the great grandfather or friend seeing the baby, but great grandfather and the friend just assuming the baby is still sleeping in the car and then the family went off to the store for supplies and something to eat. I believe there are ways to let on that the child is there without the other two adults at the campsite actually seeing him.

When they returned from the store, they may have waited til great grandpa and the friend were busy with something else and the mom and dad could have exited the car and gone down to the creek "exploring"... then when they returned from this excursion, they could have asked where the baby was. The father did say the great grandfather was shocked at this question. I sure do believe that!
I do think it is possible that the great grandfather and his friend could assume the child was at the campsite because the parents lead them to believe that. They could have even said he was sick and sleeping in the car or just even napping because he didn't get much sleep the night before. Yes, it's far fetched, but imo, this whole story smells for raw fish.

Since no one really knows exactly what time the parents arrived at the campsite (hopefully the sheriff and FBI do) and no one really knows exactly what day/time the great grandfather and friend arrived, for all we know, the parents could have arrived on Thursday and the other two adults could have arrived on Friday, which would have made it easier still, for the parents to act like the child is there at the campsite. I think it would be odd for both sets of people to arrive at such a remote campsite in the dark. The parents arriving at night is more understandable than a 70 something year old man driving down those dark bumpy roads at night, since I believe Reinwand doesn't have his drivers license at this time (I thought I read that somewhere, it could be a rumor). Greatgrandfather hadn't been to that campsite for 27 years, according to his daughter.

Cops initially treated this as a missing person's case, a little boy that wandered off. Because of this, they did not treat the campsite as a crime scene. So unfortunately, the scene wasn't secured. No one was separated and interviewed, as far as I know or if they were, it was probably already too late by the time that happened. I even think the dad and mom called family and friends to help search and many people were there within hours searching (contaminating the scene). This alone messed things up pretty bad as far as tracking the child.

Would it be so difficult to influence great grandfather that the child was there even if he didn't see him? And if Reinwand told LE that he was fishing (one of the rumors anyway) would he really be paying attention to whether or not the two year old was sleeping in the car? If you just met somebody and they told you their child was sleeping in the car or is down by the creek with mom or dad, you just believe them, if you even bother paying attention at all.

When the interviewer asked the parents when all this began, the father begins with the 911 call. That struck me as odd. Wouldn't you begin with the last time you saw your child? Wouldn't you give exact details as to what the child was doing when all this happened? Remember, the great grandfather has never ever given any kind of public statement to the press as to what happened. The paternal grandfather did, but he wasn't even on this camping trip, so there's no way he would know exactly what went down. He had to depend on the word of the mother and father of the missing child.

I think LE and the FBI have a pretty good idea of what happened. Maybe we will know more once the results of the tests come back. The sheriff thinks they will find this child (not safely). We have no way of knowing why he would say that, but I do believe he knows a great deal about what happened. And then again, we might not ever know. I certainly hope not.

The above is my opinion only.

I get what you are saying suzet, and I agree we dont know what GGD and Reinwand have told police, but......

I do think cops would have ENSURED that GGD and Reinwand actually SAW Deorr at the camp. I could be wrong. It is a simple and important point to clarify. IIRC The parents in interview talk of GGD saying he SAW Deorr go after parents parents.

Listening to parents again...

UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Listening to parents... their story would NOT hold up unless GGD was at least in some agreement. I am sure cops would be on to something so basic.

DK snr:
"He was playing with Grandpa"
"GGD said ... he came up to you"

I just think Cops would have ensured that GGD and IR actually confirmed that Deorr was at the camp.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light