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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:00 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
We've been out all evening. Took my wife to pick up her CCW license, then we took the girls to a summer festival at a local school for the blind, and then dinner. So, I just got back to catch up on the "jury question".

My suspicion, reading through everything? Somebody wants to know if Zimmerman can be found guilty of manslaughter for a "negligent act" (i.e. getting out of the truck).

Once that question is answered (no, he can't), the holdout will be forced to admit that the State presented no evidence of a deliberate act of Zimmerman's that caused the physical altercation, and they'll acquit.

From your keyboard to God's monitor, Chip. I certainly hope so.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:02 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
We've been out all evening. Took my wife to pick up her CCW license, then we took the girls to a summer festival at a local school for the blind, and then dinner. So, I just got back to catch up on the "jury question".

My suspicion, reading through everything? Somebody wants to know if Zimmerman can be found guilty of manslaughter for a "negligent act" (i.e. getting out of the truck).

Once that question is answered (no, he can't), the holdout will be forced to admit that the State presented no evidence of a deliberate act of Zimmerman's that caused the physical altercation, and they'll acquit.
SheStone wrote:

Not quite.

The jury just sent out a question asking for clarification on manslaughter with no specifics.

The Judge has now sent back a note to get more specific as to what their question is. The jury went to supper for an hour and we are waiting for their response.


I don't get the "not quite". Since the jury wasn't specific regarding the nature of their question, it could be anything. Thus, my speculation.

(And, nice to know that Jeralyn seems to think it plausible that the jurors are taking the instructions page-by-page, have dismissed second-degree murder, and have not yet taken up the matter of self-defense.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:03 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
Once that question is answered (no, he can't), the holdout will be forced to admit that the State presented no evidence of a deliberate act of Zimmerman's that caused the physical altercation, and they'll acquit.
auscitizenmom wrote:
Thanks, Chip. I respect your opinion, and I hope you are right.


I appreciate that, but keep in mind that I'm completely guessing, and know absolutely nothing about juries.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:06 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:

I don't get the "not quite". Since the jury wasn't specific regarding the nature of their question, it could be anything. Thus, my speculation.

(And, nice to know that Jeralyn seems to think it plausible that the jurors are taking the instructions page-by-page, have dismissed second-degree murder, and have not yet taken up the matter of self-defense.)


I thought it might be your speculation but I wanted to make sure you didn't think that was information we specifically knew. That is why I wrote "Not quite".


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Question for the lawyers: why aren't the affirmative defense instructions listed first, before the instructions on the charges? Wouldn't that make more sense?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:07 pm 
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I stand by my theory that the hold out is just trying to get more time away from the kids :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:12 pm 
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If George gets acquitted ... I'll take the result... but as I have said I am VERY disappointed that it was not a quick decision. Even if they now acquit... they really did not get it. I assume this sort of travesty is already repeated with other defendants.... and certainly will again in the future... having got away with it ... and fooled a jury into thinking there has been a valid case presented.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:15 pm 
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h/t Chip

Jeralyn wrote:
Zimmerman Jury Has Question on Manslaughter

Update: The jury has ordered in dinner. The parties and judge agreed the judge will respond to the jury's question as follows:

    The court cannot engage in general discussion but may be able to address a specific question regarding clarification of the instructions regarding manslaughter. if you have a specific question please submit it.

What this means: The jury had a question on manslaughter and wanted to ask the judge about it. The jury didn't specify what question they had. The parties submitted case law about the extent to which a judge can meet with a jury to answer questions about the law. They agreed upon a response which tells them they to submit a more specific question and the judge will try to answer it.

See original post below: If the jury is following the court's instructions, their consideration of manslaughter means they have rejected Murder 2 but it does not mean they have considered or rejected self-defense. They may or may not have gotten to self-defense yet.

...


Read more at TalkLeft.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:16 pm 
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liesel wrote:
My husband and I have discussed that very point several times... But don't think it's limited to Florida. It could happen anywhere in the US.


Unfortunately, I believe you're right.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
If George gets acquitted ... I'll take the result... but as I have said I am VERY disappointed that it was not a quick decision. Even if they now acquit... they really did not get it. I assume this sort of travesty is already repeated with other defendants.... and certainly will again in the future... having got away with it ... and fooled a jury into thinking there has been a valid case presented.


It could just be one juror not the whole jury.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:19 pm 
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liesel wrote:
h/t Chip
Read more at TalkLeft.


Sorry, I thought that was already posted here, which is why I didn't link.

H/T actually belongs to someone at CTH, where I first saw it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
If George gets acquitted ... I'll take the result... but as I have said I am VERY disappointed that it was not a quick decision. Even if they now acquit... they really did not get it. I assume this sort of travesty is already repeated with other defendants.... and certainly will again in the future... having got away with it ... and fooled a jury into thinking there has been a valid case presented.

While acknowledging that you're most likely absolutely correct, there is a possibility that they are just doing things by-the-book, going over all of the evidence, and trying to get it right.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:21 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:
Question for the lawyers: why aren't the affirmative defense instructions listed first, before the instructions on the charges? Wouldn't that make more sense?


It seems it's TRADITIONAL... there was some attempt by West to get things ordered differently. Nelson said Defence always want that... but this is how it is. :neener

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:

It seems it's TRADITIONAL... there was some attempt by West to get things ordered differently. Nelson said Defence always want that... but this is how it is. :neener


Yes she did and I think she was darn close to doing that tongue thing from your smiley when she did. :neener


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:26 pm 
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The traditions probably work out OK for most cases.

MOST defendants are GUILTY... an innocent defendant is not the norm.

This case is unusual. An innocent defendant... and an overly corrupt persecution.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:29 pm 
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I believe the tweets I post from Hornsby are in regards to the claims made by someone that they got word that they have inside information that it is just one hold out 5 for acquittal.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:30 pm 
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SheStone wrote:

It could just be one juror not the whole jury.

It could be one over-tired, stressed out, juror. It could be one juror with an engineer's mentality of getting things right, dotting every "i" and crossing every "t", following protocols exactly to prevent error.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:31 pm 
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