The State would have to prove that Zimmerman was a parent or guardian of Martin in order to charge him with child-abuse or murder while committing child-abuse.

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

We had a ray of sunshine when it seemed no included charges was possible... but we are now back down in the sewer of ridiculous legal assertions.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

10:07 a.m.
Mantei says the state belives it would be an error not to give and they are requesting it.

West responds that it is a decision Zimmerman has made and his position is the state charged him with second degree murder and should be able to prove it.

West says if they wanted to charge him with manslaughter they could do that.

Judge Nelson says based on the case law the court will give the instruction on manslaughter.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

We're listening to the Weasel explain how it applies through about 6 degrees of separation.

It does NOT make sense to me that AFTER a trial you start making up charges??????

None of this was argued... and so the defendant was not given a chance to respond.... this is NUTS!!!!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes. The defendant has a constitutional right to due process, a fair trial, and the right to confront charges against him.

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

West's opening response to the absurd child-abuse charge: "Oh. My. God."

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

WEST" "Oh my God........."

"Just when you think this case could not get any more bizarre....."

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Don West has 50mm guns directed squarely at Mini-Me, and is unloading.

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

West just called Nelson's timeline bluff: "if the court is going to take this asinine charge seriously, then defense needs several hours to prepare a response" (paraphrased)

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

10:07 a.m.
Mantei says the state belives it would be an error not to give and they are requesting it.

West responds that it is a decision Zimmerman has made and his position is the state charged him with second degree murder and should be able to prove it.

West says if they wanted to charge him with manslaughter they could do that.

Judge Nelson says based on the case law the court will give the instruction on manslaughter.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Finally made it back, trying to catch up. Got here just in time to hear judge say facts don't support agg. assault. So... maybe she was listening?

_________________
All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

10:34 a.m.
“Just when I thought this case couldn’t get any more bizarre,” West says about the state seeking third degree felony murder based on child abuse.

West accuses Mantei of searching for case law for possibly a year, plotting to throw it on the defense.

West moves to strike it.

He says the state has been lying in wait, collecting child abuse case law, to deal with it at the moments of closing arguments.

He calls it disingenuous and outrageous.

He asks if the court could recess for several hours. He says it is hard for him to imagine the court could take it seriously.

Judge Nelson says the court hasn’t been provided a lot of thing for a hearing until late.

She asks for the argument.

West says it was just emailed to him buried in the instructions.

He says it’s not possible Mantei researched the case law last night.

He says Corey is sitting there approving of it.

Judge Nelson tells West that is not proper argument.

Judge Nelson says the supreme court procedure instructions indicate category one and category two lesser charges. She says they are part of the instruction that have been known.

She says the possibility of a category two is known since the beginning of trial.

West suggests vehicular homicide.

Judge Nelson says the evidence doesn’t support that. She says the facts argued by the state make it possible.

West says he has one other lawyer with him. He says it was a trick by the state.

Judge Nelson says they will come back to this argument.

10:24 a.m.
West says he is still trying to sort the manslaughter by act instruction.

Mantei says the next requested less is the third degree felony murder.

He says child abuse must be defined in the instruction.

He cites case law for the argument.

He provides case law that says the ignorance of the age of the victim by the defendant is not a defense.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

That was just a bone. Nelson is now acting like she's going to allow a lesser-included charge of felony third-degree murder, with an underlying felony child abuse felony.

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

I think West is stunned.... it must seem like he has entered a court in The Twilight Zone

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

enumerated felony?

Why is the defense objecting to including the forcible felony commission as a justification for use of deadly force in self defense?

_________________
"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)