His conclusion that the voice was Trayvon's because it stopped after Trayvon was shot, would be just as true for George, as he ceased being beaten after Trayvon was shot, and had no further need to scream for help,
Mike

Isn't it remarkable how George was able to formulate a story instantly upon police arrival there that night, tell part of it to neighbors and responding officers, and then tell the rest of it immediately thereafter in interviews at the police station (which happened sooner than he could've made them take place if he'd chosen to go to the hospital to buy time, btw)

and that somehow that story even after more than a year, is more logical, common sense, and evidence-friendly than ANYTHING anyone else has been able to come up with? They've had a year, and they haven't been able to come up with something better. Maybe that's because what George told was the truth?

All you need is some common sense.

Most obvious, common sense conclusion on who was screaming? You look at George's injuries, TM's lack of them, and you listen to what George describes... it fits. Most logical thing to do is accept his version of how he sustained those injuries, and that he was the one screaming. It would be very odd indeed if he made not a peep while sustaining those wounds, and if TM screamed in terror as he inflicted them. It's just a silly, silly and stupid idea to even suggest it was Trayvon screaming. The only reason there are even people who think that, or ever thought that, was because of the fact-deficient early narrative and the Hollister pictures.

And which is more logical, JQ idiots... that he shot this stranger after a neighbor declared himself (and for all George knew was watching exactly what he did as he shot) for some unknown reason... rage... to "shut this kid up" or whatever? And that he trusted ONE bullet to do that job?

Or that he shot for exactly the reason he said he did? To protect himself.

Shooting after neighbors are DEFINITELY watching makes no sense. If murder was his goal, he'd have shot Trayvon right from the beginning. If the gun had been in play from the outset, Trayvon's prints would be on it.

This is exactly why the JQ and CW types tend to be such nutty gossips, and why they have to ban opposing views, and why they have to make their forums unviewable, etc... because as more and more evidence has come out, it has required a crazier and crazier disconnect from reality to sustain their viewpoints on this case.

They remind me of the Heaven's Gate cult. Maybe they're buying sneakers and kool-aid in preparation for the comet to come for them the day George is found guilty of Triple Murder Zero, and air-lifted into Compton for his just punishments.

Well said, Geo

(I moved it here to case discussion)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I had to log on here to read some sense. Elsewhere peeps are putting their money on the voice saying Help Me should have given GZ a murder 1 charge.

Well.... you know what they say, Taurus...

"You lie down with dogs... you get up with fleas!"





Get "Off The Island".........

And paddle over here to "The Mainland"

(Watch out for nasty bitey (inconsistent) Mods)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

The fact is, comparing screams to speaking voices is beyond whatever capabilities this science has currently.

Because people like publicity and like to feel important, and most of all like to be paid large fees to give their expert opinion on things... the various people in the small voice analysis community all seem to have struggled to various degrees with the moral conundrum of whether to take a crack at this, or just do what they all should have done... which was to tell any and all who asked (Whether it was O'Mara, the state, or news media) that it simply wasn't something they could do, and that it would be irresponsible to issue an opinion. This was PARTICULARLY the case for people approached by media and particularly those who issued findings without having any exemplar of Trayvon available to them.

I'm looking at you, Tom Owen and Ed Primaeu.

One good thing they did for us was remind us that no matter who we are, no human being is immune to confirmation bias. This is why we invented double blind tests, etc. I believe they would have never issued the findings they did if the injury photos and more recently revealed information about Trayvon had been available at that time. I think they were just two more victims of the Julison narrative.

The most responsible experts I've seen so far are the PhDs in this new document release, who said a lot about things being uncertain, and seemed to try to impress upon anyone reading it how dicey it is to try to make such a comparison (scream to speech.) Even so, they should probably have declined to do it. I sympathize more with them because in a way, the earlier irresponsibility of people like Tom Owen set the stage for it. They sort of made it necessary for someone more adult to weigh in with more nuanced and realistic findings.

Honestly, I think plain old detective work by the SPD was the more reliable method here. Even Serino who had his own issues with George never seemed to doubt or question that it was George screaming (correct me if I'm wrong on that.)

I think the SPD's viewpoint was, okay this guy was the first person to call us... he wanted us, the police, to be there. On his call he even clearly expressed a desire for us to be there as fast as possible... and when we show up, he's just shot someone (once) and he's covered in blood. We've got one witness who had anything remotely close to a "good look" at what was going on before the shot, and he says it was George screaming, which fits what George says, fits the injuries... AND he says he saw the other guy on top of George, beating on him. That all fits what George describes. I think to SPD, there was never much question that it was George screaming. This is closely tied in with them being the people who had the most information from the very outset. Only exposure to the Julison narrative can explain anyone doubting it was George.

Consider for a moment what you have to believe in order to think it was Trayvon screaming. For the whole narrative of it being Trayvon screaming to work, George Zimmerman basically has to be a completely inhuman monster. Has to be such a cold, heartless person as to execute someone who is helplessly begging for their life. I personally think that is patently absurd, as he is manifestly a mild-mannered dope. Even setting that aside, the "executed the child" narrative simply cannot fit within Witness 6 and Witness 11 testimony.

Am I being overly simplistic, or isn't it actually fair to say that the injury photos of Zimmerman effectively make it impossible to prove it was not self-defense?

My take on the best the state has would be their hope to give us is storyline about a frightened person being followed ...who attacked GZ in fear for his life when he asked GZ why and GZ reached for ?_____? (possible weapon) ...then TM realized GZ had a gun and knowing he could not outrun the bullet he screamed for help while trying to disabled the man who had pursued him...

Question (for any with input here):

How can Bernie introduce this type of story without DeeDee (which tells us what he has without her, I suppose)?

Bernie can't properly argue wild speculation as fact. He has to have evidence.

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

The prosecution has obviously been headed directly towards the "fear" factor since the PCA; "...Martin was SCARED because he was being followed ...by an unknown male ...Zimmerman was pursuing Martin."

If that's Bernie's strategy, does he need DeeDee ….or how else could he plant that story?

Maybe bits and pieces through testimony from others? If so, who & how?

Trade sides for a moment here ...what can Bernie do?


ADD: Or what is Bernie's strategy if I am wrong?

Trayvon was scared requires Dee Dee.

What a crock of shit!!! No wonder MOM requested a Frye hearing on these looney tunes dingbats.

I hope Judge Nelson realizes that the FBI's conclusion concerning the data debunks all these goofball's opinions.

Excellent point!

_________________
Getting facts right is a fundamental requirement of morality.
- P. J. O'Rourke

Here's my Crumpisms video



It's very short and should be good for a laugh. It's a compilation of him struggling with the English language, and losing.

Well done Geo... funny and makes a good point

(I'll delete the "work in progress" version)

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

But...



Reports just presented are dated:
...March 20, 2013
...May 9, 2013

2012 v. 2013

Could the numbered screams have been identified on a previous report?

Good morning

I found a trial that Tom Owens testified in before. If someone has testified before and has been recognized as an expert would a Frye hearing be held?

On Friday, prosecution witness Tom Owen, a forensic voice identification expert, testified Friday morning that computer programs determined Davalloo placed the 911 call at 12:13 p.m. on the day Raymundo was found fatally stabbed and bludgeoned in her Shippan apartment.

Owen testified he had tried to determine who made the 911 call in 2004, but at the time his software couldn't match Davalloo with the caller's voice. Owen said he retested Davalloo's voice last year using newer, digital voice analysis methods. Supervisory Assistant State's Attorney James Bernardi asked Owen whether he came to a different determination during the second test.

"Yes," Owen said. "That Sheila Davalloo is the person that made the 911 call."

Read more: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/a ... z2TMzLewhi

I'm going to guess that the Frye hearing would be appropriate for the technology used in this case - specifically, the proprietary-algorithm, just-released-to-market, $5000, developed-and-owned-by-the-"expert" software that Owen used to claim that the voice was not that of Zimmerman.

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"That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook." - 5th DCA, Stinson v. State (Fl)

Food for thought on it:

They evidently have reports from Hamsberger & Hollien that were "provided on 4/12/2012 & 4/15/2012" and then followed up with a new report from them on March 20, 2013, about a year later.

Correct or not, we know that about 50 days after rch 20, 2013 the report from Reich comes about.

Has this process eliminated any conflicting results on specific numbered "calls" identified?

One of the things that strikes me is how much the Trayvonites get sidetracked and go down rabbit holes. There is really only one explanation for this. They know that there is no real case so they have to look for these tiny little areas where they can concoct some kind of theory around how it makes George look bad. None of their theories will ever see the light of day in a court room, but that doesn't stop the speculation. Some of these include, questions over the status of the CCW, who's gun he had that night, why he said he would meet the officers at the mailboxes then changed his mind, if his farts smelled like beans or cheese that night, OK the last one was a slight exaggeration, but not too far off from some of the ones I have heard.