Discussion about the system itself as it applies... rather than discussion of a particular case

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

In Miami and the rest of Florida, it is held that a jury can use a panel of only 6 people except for cases in which the charge is first-degree murder, which requires a 12-member jury. While we’re generally led to believe that all or most cases require a panel of 12 jurors, this is more or less a byproduct of popular culture – movies, television shows and the perpetuation therein. In fact, most states use only 6 jurors for misdemeanors.

Florida, on the other hand, uses only 6 jurors when trying to reach a court verdict on felonies as well (Connecticut is the only other state that does this). This is problematic because Florida has one of the highest rates of wrongful conviction.
In 1970, the United States Supreme Court gave its stamp of approval to the usage of a 6-member jury in a Florida case, citing that a 12-member jury panel is more or less a “historical accident” and that the Constitution is not abridged by the use of 6 people.

With half as many people to convince, the prosecution has an easier game of making its case, and jurors with reservations are more likely to be overpowered by small-group consensus; whereas in a larger jury, they might find someone who shares those reservations and can open an avenue for further exploration and deliberation before delivering a court verdict.

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Due to 6 jurors, George Zimmerman was more difficult for MOM to defend and to obtain the Not Guilty verdict.

Good morning, BoyntonStu!
Interesting info, thanks.

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Too bad about the "historical accident" as I agree six people can be swayed easier when there are fewer people to find a person who may think as you do. It seems that they should have stuck with the precedent and applied it as it was when the constitution was created.

Since this is under Juvenile Justice, I'll post it here.

Civil citations allow kids to learn from mistakes without criminal record

http://www.news-journalonline.com/artic ... nal-record



More information here...

https://www.google.com/search?q=florida ... ent=safari

http://www.juvjustice.org/media/resourc ... ce_721.pdf

Dream Defenders don't seem aware of all the breaks these offenders are getting to keep them out of the school to prison pipeline. Yet, despite this and other diversion programs, the arrests are still at a out of control rate. I would like to hear what else could be done to stop this escalating problem. What can the Juvenile Justice Department do? Did Trayvon ever receive a civil citation? It doesn't appear he did, just diverted to a cover up program.

it all goes back to mainstreaming... but it doesn't work if the people it is supposed to help don't want it. Just cause you get a "pass" doesn't make you respect the system more...

Thanks, flgirl543.

I agree with BerthaBlue - at least some of those in trouble will remain in trouble. However, if applied very judiciously, giving a break to kids who can be helped, it could be a positive thing.

There used to be a special scholarship for "at risk" students available around here. The promise of that scholarship and the threat of losing it really helped some kids who could be helped, kwim? They had to graduate with a certain gpa and keep their noses clean, of course, but it was more than that - kids that were born without much of a chance and knew it were given a break and for the very large majority of them, appreciated it very much. That scholarship truly saved some very good kids from becoming not so good. Dropping out, or barely getting through with D's wasn't an option, or they'd lose the scholarship. Suddenly they had a reason to go to school, to pay attention and try to learn, even. I mean, there's no way to be certain how things would have turned out otherwise, but I believe, sincerely and strongly, that those scholarships changed lives, saved kids, and even eased things for parents because the kids had to behave, kwim?

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Yes I agree that it can help those that want it. Like addiction, you have to want to help yourself first and foremost.

This is what teachers deal with from a teacher's perspective.

Closing Flagler’s Alternative School: When The Classmate Next to Your Child Is a Felon

http://flaglerlive.com/54379/everest-alternative-jan/

I haven't had a child in this system for 10 years, but grandkids are there now. This is a pretty diverse community. As far as I can tell, and to be fair, problems arise from all colors of the community. Currently, the school system is under complaint from the Southern Poverty Law Center because black students are punished more often and more harshly than their white peers.

Complaint spurs student code of conduct review in Flagler

http://www.news-journalonline.com/artic ... /307129982

This whole course of events is so troubling to me. It seems like the wheels are spinning and they're moving backwards.

And it occurs to no one that it's possible that some students are punished more because they misbehave more? SMH

From ours' first day of school, they were responsible for their behavior and if they goofed up, they had consequences which included apologizing to the teacher and/or whomever else was involved. Thankfully, there were very, very few apologies in total, zero from the girls; but we figure it's mostly because they all knew there would be consequences.

Now that I think about it... do you think we punished a child more often, and more harshly if a boy? Yeah, it wasn't because of the child's gender - it was whether or not they misbehaved!!

_________________
All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Read more at TalkLeft.

Personally, I'm very conflicted about this. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time, blah blah v. someone dying, and/or very old isn't likely to be much of a danger to the community, or able to be rehabilitated any more. As a law-and-order, rule-of-law type, I tend to lean toward the former, but as a human, I understand that some cases may put me fully into the camp of the latter. As an American who regularly reads/listens to/watches news, I know this will be abused like so many other things.

Yup. Conflicted. What are your thoughts?

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All posts are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect the views of Random Topics. Differences are allowed here.

Hi Deb- in the last year and a half, I have come to view police in a very negative way. I do not trust them, and i fear them. I'll go so far as to say I don't like them. I'm sure (well I hope) that there are good and honest policemen, but they're not in the majority in my neck of the woods. And it appears there are many no good ones all over the nation. Too often, the pattern seems to be that LE tends to attract a certain kind of person. The kind that desperately need authority. The uniform and badge provide the authority they crave. They're usually compensating for something. ( think of the short man who drives the humongous truck so he can be above everyone else and look down on ppl).
Having said that, what happened to this policeman was a despicable tragedy. And anyone who would delight in it because he was a cop is no better than what they despise themselves! I don't like cops, but I would never, ever want some thug lowlife to kill or harm even one cop.

Heck. I have gotten tickets too many to count, been arrested more times than I care to admit. The one thing I can honestly say is that I was doing what they said I was doing.

I might not have liked the manner (Jackass came running around a building with his gun drawn. I got thrown on the hood of my car during that arrest! Fool told Chief I tried to run him down. I told Chief if that was my intent he would have been an Effing Hood ornament. Also told him that I hoped that their building and the bank I was arrested at got blown off the face of the earth. Chief advised me not to wish for such things because what if it actually happened? I told Chief...Look for me. I did it.)

But heck, too. When I have needed help, they have come through. What they personally think about me...I could give a flying she-ite.

ETA: Do you live in Louisiana? There are some assbites in that neck of the woods.

Hi Deb- No, not Louisiana, Western NC. I have never broken any laws, but have seen the harassment of others, including my son, by the cops here. The one time I did need them, they were a day late and a dollar short. Worthless is what they are. Wish I could've been there when you talked to the chief! Would've been better than ice cream.

I was on watch list before they became more common...starting with Jimmy Carter in Houston...I knew the presidential suite was on the 24th floor of the Hyatt. Rode ride up there on an elevator and promptly got escorted down by SS. After I got ID'ed of course. Told I was no longer welcome in the hotel until the President was gone.

I talked to Secret Service about Ronald Reagan and asked them what I could tell him. They said don't even threaten to untie his shoelaces. Good by me. Two pages in English and Spanish to tell him what kind of an arse he was.

Tried to join the CIA while I was in college just to remind them I was still around.

I had a lot of fun. I am a She-ite disturber. Old hippies and all. I have a certain animosity towards authority.

Broward County: Systemic Judicial Misconduct
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Sun Jun 29, 2014 at 03:01:17 PM EST

Frances Robles has an eye-opening article in the New York Times about the number of judges charged with criminal conduct and ethical violations in Broward County.

How could one county have so many misbehaving judges? Some say it's systemic. Others are in denial. The facts speak for themselves. Here are just a few examples:

• 3 judges charged with DUI in 6 months.
  
• This month, a former judge in Broward was disbarred for exchanging 949 phone calls and 471 text messages with the prosecutor during a death penalty case.
  
• Judge John C. Murphy in Brevard County is on leave after he was caught on video this month threatening a public defender, who later accused the judge of punching him in the head.
  
• In the Keys, a judge who was replaced on the bench after dozing off told a local news reporter that Ambien made him hallucinate about “ ‘Fantasia’ and the dancing brooms.”
  
• Another stepped down because a blogger exposed a sexually explicit profile the judge had posted on a gay dating site.

Broward County has the highest rate of exonerations of defendants in Florida.

...more at link
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2014/6/29 ... isconduct-

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Hi Carm

I am hoping you find me here.

After I retired, this was the first filicidal trial I followed from beginning to end. I was happy the appeal happened and her retrial verdict was proper for her condition. Texas got it right this time. She had one of the best attorneys (George Parnham) and Houston could certainly afford him and the appeal process.

Rocket scientist, Rudy Yates, must be the biggest dumbass father/husband to ever breathe. I quit reading anything about him but search every once in a while about Andrea's status. How in the world did he find another wife?

Have a fabulous day!

Hi Molly

Found ya' !

I'll search around a bit about Andrea and Rudy. I haven't read or heard anything in a long time.

And I agree Andrea is where she needs to be. Rudy not so much, honestly I didn't follow the story except peripherally, but then I met a psychiatrist who had seen Andrea in the bin and his take on her (we were discussing GBMI Guilty But Mentally Ill v NGBRI Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity) got me interested in looking further into it.

When I heard and saw Rudy I was ill, no one, no one should leave their children with someone as disturbed as Andrea, not even for a minute, and I don't buy for a second that Andrea seemed capable that morning.

I had a friend with a mental illness, she told me on the phone that the only place her children would be safe was heaven, the police were there before me and I was there in less than 5 minutes.

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If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Hey Molly Rumpole tossed us out of chat and over here

Just joking Rumpole, I know you like to keep things ordered here

Anyhow I haven't devoted anymore time to find an Andrea or Rudy update. I wonder if he has more kids with the new wife. Ack.

Maybe tomorrow I'll do some searching. I have been spending some time reading about the Antonio Robinson case. Another crock of BS.

_________________
If your mind is agitated you will find agitation everywhere. Where else will you find peace if not within you? __ Papaji

Interesting map that I ran across today. I had asked for additional data to be added to it. Author referred me to @deray. LOL!

Anyways, check it out... http://www.rawscience.tv/animated-map-o ... geography/

I'd like to see additional info added to reflect party in control, two parent status, ebt status, etc.!