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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Truthiness wrote:

Funny thing is, is myself and others spent quite a bit of time explaining patiently, in detail, using the law and the evidence to demonstrate why the case is so weak. If they're still ignorant as to why there's no chance of a conviction sticking, it's entirely by their own choice.


You and others tried, Truthiness... you can't fix stupid... they remain "Wilfully ignorant"

(I wrote more but will moderate myself and put it in the "Introduction" thread)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:59 pm 
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DebFrmHell wrote:
IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!! IMO ALERT!!!

I guess the concept of "Justifiable Homicide" is still a ship passing in the night. That they can't see the Defense can raise reasonable doubt for basically every issue is beyond me. The Defense has witnesses, they have injuries, they have the ballistics, they have the angle of entry for the bullet, they have George Zimmerman's DNA on the cuff of a sleeve worn by Trayvon Martin.

It defies logic that the person winning a one-sided fight would be calling for help for over 38 seconds. After the shooting and Zimmerman was in the patrol car he said "I was yelling for help and no one would help me." Long before anyone knew that the "helps" were recorded. That is HUGE to me.

And then there is W8. The APC is based primarily on her deposition. The State has a lot riding on her testimony. The Fulton-Martins have a lot riding on her testimony. The mere fact that their very own lawyer injected himself into the case by his handling of her is going to do serious damage to her credibly then anything MOM can come up with. She wasn't "produced" until after the lawyers and the family had heard the NEN call from GZ and the incoming 911 calls. And she wasn't taken any where to give a statement. Instead he chose ABC and Matt Gutman to introduce her. His agenda became more important than their case, IMO. He chose publicity over "Justice For Trayvon" and the proper way to get evidence in Martin's favor into the system.

That young woman didn't want to come forward. She resisted the pleas of Sybrina Fulton while they were walking in the yard at SF's house. It is safe to assume she most likely resisted the efforts of Tracy Martin, too. He is the one who had her contact information so I am assuming that he forwarded that information to SF. They were desperate to move the case forward towards an arrest. If W8 had come forward in a timely and proper fashion that arrest warrant would have been issued weeks before it actually was and much of the unrest would have never happened.

To say that she was frightened to come forward, I don't understand. There was no hue and cry until after March 8th. Nothing to be frightened of for over a week to ten days, IMO. This was her good friend who was shot and killed. Why would she refuse to help his family? She knew their position. And nothing. The SAO had to go look for her and bring her to SF's apartment because she didn't show for her scheduled deposition. She didn't want to come forward. She didn't want to help. Period.

Or she was manufactured by Crump. The timing is highly suspicious to me.

In any event, if this case falls apart because their Class A- "Star" witness is compromised no one need look further than Benjamin Crump to point a finger. He will no doubt say the SPD dropped the ball. Well, it was his advice that kept Tracy Martin from turning over that PIN for investigators. Why didn't Tracy Martin want to help his own cause? Why would he force the State to get a search warrant?

How often does a lawyer, representing the interests of the victim's family, get put on notice that he will be deposed by the Defense? I don't follow a lot of trials so there may be some out there but I don't recall any off the bat.

The Legacy of Trayvon Martin will be that race was made a factor in a case where there was no racism. He will fall into the ranks of Tawana Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse Players. And for a family who says that they want to do good things by awarding scholarships to other youths, I think that is a shame.

It is a terrible tragedy that the young man is dead. Poor choices were made all the way around in this by both individuals. No one is going to come out ahead. One life is over and another is changed irrevocably. There are no winners here. There is no justice.

Perfect Storm.


:80

As a rule I don't like large posts repeated as quotes, but this is worth posting again, Deb.

It is a great outline, Deb

    It defies logic that the person winning a one-sided fight would be calling for help for over 38 seconds. After the shooting and Zimmerman was in the patrol car he said "I was yelling for help and no one would help me." Long before anyone knew that the "helps" were recorded. That is HUGE to me.

I couldn't agree more.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:01 pm 
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On one of the crime forum they are reversing the altercation and debris field from south to north. Phone, body, flashlight, plastic bag, key ring.

So Zimmerman catches Martin on the phone, shoots him, then prances up the E-W sidewalk scattering items along the way? I tried to follow the logic. I gave up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:09 pm 
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It's a rabbit hole, Deb.

Main reason for discussing lunatic theories at all is that it fills in the time during a slow news period.

Witnesses saw the scuffle and immediate aftermath.....Cops arrived within seconds of the shooting...
Even IF GZ had time ... why would he run up to T (spreading items) then run back to be in place for witnesses and cops? :12

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Diwataman at CTH has posted tweet.....

Quote:
Tony Pipitone @TonyPipitone

George Zimmerman defense says next week's motions hearing has been cancelled, as there are no motions pending. #TrayvonMartin #Local6

3 Jan 13

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Have I entered the Twilight Zone.....?


It may well be true that there are no motions pending because the Defence has not got off their asses and tabled any... but there are no shortage of issues and Discovery problems that NEED to be addressed.

The BEST interpretation I can put on this is that behind the scenes BDLR has stopped obfuscating and started complying?
I don't believe that... and if he had there should be Court records of more discovery items turned over to defence.

This also implies that the scheme team have supplied names etc and a clear complete recording of DD.... I don't believe that either.

This also replies that Matt Guttman is not being sought to hand over his tapes of DD interviews... that is nuts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:47 pm 
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From GZ Legal Site

http://gzlegalcase.com/



Zimmerman Defense Waives January 8 Hearing

Quote:
on 02 January 2013.
On October 12, 2012, the Zimmerman defense filed a Motion to Schedule Standing Hearings to Address Discovery and Other Case Management Issues. In response to our motion, the Judge has pre-scheduled a number of hearings that can be used if the defense or the state has motions to bring before the court. The next pre-scheduled hearing was set for January 8; however, the defense and the state have agreed that there are currently no matters that can be appropriately addressed by the Court on that date, so we have chosen to waive the January 8 hearing. The next hearing is scheduled for February 5, and we anticipate there will be new motions put before the court in advance of that hearing date.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:37 pm 
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Perhaps they are knee deep in FDLE things? IDK. What do you think the scope is for investigating things in the FDLE? I thought for a while it might be the phone but the phone was returned without so much as a dusting for fingerprints. I don't know that it was even swabbed. That was at the request of SPD. Do you remember who told them to cease any testing, to just download the memory chip, and return to SPD?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:43 pm 
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There is a LOT of discovery outstanding.. and even if BDLR has said he will play ball.... it's not all listed in discovery given to Defence... so I can not for the life of me understand this...
For one thing......

WHERE ARE THE DAMNED PING LOGS?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:51 pm 
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What is making The Other Side snark about the CCL held by Zimmerman? IIRC, there was a copy of his license in the early Doc Dumps. They are saying that money was refunded and questioning the validity of said license. I guess it has pooped (typo and I am keeping it! LOL) up at Leatherman's.

**********************************************************
There are a few questions I would like addressed about Discovery and Sunshine Laws. The Prosecution has been very slow in releasing information that is favorable to Zimmerman. It has been thoroughly reviewed by the Defense before it is released to the media. Seems like there has been some 30 odd days between times. Could the Defense be a little slow in releasing evidence that is favorable to Martin? Or if it is more favorable to Zimmerman, the Prosecution is sitting on it before allowing it to be released?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:59 pm 
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In answer to your question...... yes

Of course they all play games and delay when they can get away with it. But there are supposed to be rules.. and it seems to me they cross the line? I understand BDLR trying it on... I do not understand why MOM and West are not screaming about it.

The CCL? As I have described before... the Reef Fish swarm as a cloud on any tasty morsel... they will dart away onto something else.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:08 am 
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Daily Daft Post From Justarse Quest

A delusional view as usual, and a claim that since GZ supporters have gone from their hidden sewer, that proves that they (Traybots) have…

WON THE DEBATE :31



Papapi wrote:
It's somewhat obvious that this case has taken a turn toward true justice for those who have actually read the discovery documents and examined the circumstances of the events on the night of February 26th. I've been posting on this forum since May, and before that on another forum that shall remain unnamed (not over there, heavens forbid). As more and more was revealed of the prosecution's evidence it settled into reasonable people's minds who was solely responsible for this murder. One by one the ridiculously convoluted and abjectly absurd arguments in favor of George Zimmerman were presented, discussed, debated and eventually decided. Unfortunately for George Zimmerman, the facts in discovery evidence do not support his various and sordid tales of the events of that night. Therefore, all those supporting his alleged innocence eventually tucked tale and ran, or were forced to either put up and support their theories and hypotheses with facts, or just shut up.

This is called winning the debate.

Now we have arrived at this juncture in the case, just waiting for the course of justice to be served. In nearly everyone's mind here, George Zimmerman will be convicted of his crime in some degree, barring some crazy quirk of a stuffed jury or another Pack of Pinellas Pitifuls.

I am overjoyed my participation here has afforded others the opportunity to see the true facts, and the overwhelming indicators of guilt in George Zimmerman's horrific crime. I'm pleased to be part of the path to justice for Trayvon Martin.

Thank you Justice Quest, and most of all thank you Trayvon Warriors!


This, of course is nonsense… people who tried posting the counter argument have been bullied and banned and any left at JQ do not post in the Trayvon Zone.

Traybots have not even HAD the debate, let alone won it. It was decreed that one side of the debate could not be posted and links to reasoned discussion and information (eg CTH) were forbidden


Please stick broadly to GZ case in this thread.

To discuss JQ, go to
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=63&p=19449#p19449

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:21 am 
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Deb... moved your and my posts to Introduction thread (talk about JQ).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:38 am 
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From Jeralyn Merritt (Talk Left Forum)

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/to ... #msg105119


Zimmerman Case Moved to Judge Marlene Alva
Today at 03:04:51 AM

Judge Debra Nelson has moved to civil and did not take the Zimmerman case with her. The docket for the case shows it is now with Judge Alva.
Alva's docket schedule shows she has the Feb 5 and March 5 days set aside for Zimmerman. Nelson's schedule does not have any Zimmerman dates.

I believe Nelson could have kept the case but chose not to. The reason I say that is this paragraph from the rules for the 18th Circuit
Quote:
Retention of Cases:
The interest of justice may require that a judge retain assignment over one or more cases that would customarily be transferred to another judge at the time of the annual rotation of judicial assignments. Any Circuit Judge may elect to retain assignment of individual cases and shall accomplish this by entering an order directing to the Clerk not to reassign the case.

Also, it appears the criminal division closes for the last two weeks in December, which may be why we haven't seen any new motions filed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:43 am 
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There have been some differing claims.. eg Nelson will keep the case.. but Jeralyn is a very reliable source, so I'll run with what she says.

It does explain why Nelson might have remained ANNOYINGLY uninformed about the facts of the case. Lets hope the New Judge has done some advanced study and/or is a bit sharper and quicker on the uptake than Nelson.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:45 am 
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From CTH....

Quote:
MJW says:
January 2, 2013 at 11:46 pm

Marlene Alva was a public defender before she became a judge, so conventional wisdom says she’d be a good choice from the defense’s perspective.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... ent-278545

( The Traybots are not going to like this :62 )

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:58 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
There have been some differing claims.. eg Nelson will keep the case.. but Jeralyn is a very reliable source, so I'll run with what she says.

It does explain why Nelson might have remained ANNOYINGLY uninformed about the facts of the case. Lets hope the New Judge has done some advanced study and/or is a bit sharper and quicker on the uptake than Nelson.


She does make a good case that the judge has again changed. I like MJW's input a lot, too! I have much respect there.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:05 pm 
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The computer did it!!!!

From GZLEGAL:

No Change of Judge in Zimmerman Case
on 03 January 2013.

There have been some online rumors that Judge Alva will be taking over the Zimmerman criminal case, but this is untrue. Judge Nelson will continue to preside over the Zimmerman case, and she has also been assigned to the civil suit filed against NBCUniversal Media, LLC. The rumor began because on January 1, 2012, Judge Nelson switched to handling civil cases, and Judge Alva switched to criminal cases, and we assume that the Seminole County Clerk of Courts website switched all cases on the docket automatically. Judge Nelson, however, has chosen to keep the Zimmerman case on her docket, and we suspect the Seminole County Clerk of Courts website will be manually updated to reflect this soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Thanks Deb

As a public information site the Seminole County Clerk of Courts website sucks!!

It is a site to go looking for information AFTER you know about it... and then be prepared for it to be a day or two late... and now apparently.... TOTALLY WRONG :59

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Just one of MANY things to ponder on:
Why is it that people who think GZ is guilty, do not want details of phone released.
IF things are as they imagine, with DD on the phone with TM right up to the scuffle... the phone evidence detail will be hard physical evidence in support of their case.
Yet............
It is us people who do not believe the DD evidence contradicts GZ's version, or perhaps DD is an invention of Crump and The Scheme Team who want the phone evidence?

If one side wants to see the facts, (whatever they may show), and the other side are afraid they might be seen and "hurt their case", it speaks to a desire to shine light on the truth on one side, versus a desire to get a ill-conceived result on the other

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