For those who say we have only heard GZ version... What other "version" do you think there might be? What sort of evidence will there be to prove this version?
We have the initial testimony of all available ear and eye witnesses.. that is it. A selection of those people will be the witnesses at trial. Do you think they will all support a version where GZ chased and gunned down TM? They will have to completely change their testimony (more than they already have). And even so... their view and/or hearing of events was brief and scant at best. Such a hypothetical new version would still have to be weighed against GZ's comprehensive account.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Maybe they plan to perform a Trayance

Funny you should say that

Over at "Lynch Mob Central" they are "finding" ghostly apparitions in blurry still shots from blurry surveillance videos from cameras around Twin lakes Club house.

I know it would be a waste (I have tried it before) but a brief explanation about Pareidolia may be in order.

This somewhat hysterical finding of faces and bodies (as well as books, toys, back packs, stuffed animals, baby strollers etc) in blurry images was rife in another case (which I wont mention) as well as the Natalee Holloway case when underwater rocks and seaweed were pronounced to be Natalee's five year submerged body seen in a vague (scale unknown) underwater holiday snap.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Wow...

yea, the human imagination is a powerful and dangerous thing when unrestrained and utilized in matters of legal consequence.

I personally do not believe in any supernatural element to our universe whatsoever. I am very, very guarded against any sort of superstition or mystical thinking creeping it's way into my brain.

It's not necessarily the belief in anything paranormal... the pareidolia phenomenon is a human trait.. to "invent" some sort of order even where the visual evidence is vague or ambiguous.. it's why we all see :) as a smiling face.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Oh I know, but since it came up during a discussion of seances and such I guess I went off on a little rantgent.

Just as well be prepared for all eventualities... because it seems TM's version is going to be the KEY if this comes to trial.

I imagine court lights dimmed..... Judge, jury and lawyers from both sides holding hands.

An angelic apparition of 12 year old TM will appear in the witness box.. then after giving testimony in a clear, high pitched, sweet angelic voice.. the apparition will dispense purple Skittles and sips of Arizona Iced Tea to all in attendance, from a single bottomless can... the whole scene reminiscent of the loaves and fishes following the Sermon on the Mount.. or perhaps the taking of communion after Mass.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Hahaha, but will he forgive GZ?

The funny thing about all of this is, I'm not even sure TM would be a TM supporter. He would know the truth of how he was completely in the wrong.

You do make some very interesting points. I thought I felt one way and now I am on the fence again. I think I'll just wait and see how it all unfolds.

Although I do believe in a 'supernatural element' to the universe, I also like to keep my feet on the ground, and am warned by that 'element' to be careful with my imagination. Good advice.

I really do believe that this whole case is terribly unfortunate...in that neither Trayvon nor George had a clue something so drastic would happen. It was unfortunate for both parties. But what's done is done. I think the best defense for George is that he saw Trayvon spot his gun and George felt the need to get to it first. It's just too bad George coudn't shoot to 'stop' Trayvon instead of to kill him. I think he had no time to 'aim'. But even if he shot to kill, he had that right if he thought Trayvon would use his own gun against him.

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"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." Leviticus 19:15

Thanks

Above all else, I feel that at the very least we should all be able to agree that there is enough chance he's telling the truth, enough doubt about this... that the decision to send this man to prison for years or decades really cannot be made with any feeling of moral confidence and certainty by any person who is being honest with themselves.

Some VERY bright people writing here. Good points.

Love Being Here With You

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

About hollow point bullets. Designed to do much much damage. (Read above). I think anyone who shoots in the chest
area/ a hollow point knows it's probable death. I had hollow bullets in my gun when I was a musician. I thought I would only have to use it when my car had a flat, etc. and I was told by NRA I had to let them show signs of breaking into my car - OR I could be in big big trouble. THEN I had to shoot to kill I guess. They would be RIGHT IN FRONT of me ... IN my disabled car.

I am somewhat on that fence too I feel...
Always did though have so many questions about all of this ...

I always envisioned a Trayvon version before - and will share it here AFTER my .
There is no agenda with me... none.

Always seemed to feel there was ~
Act 1. Z. following Trayvon in his car.
Act 2. Z. getting out of his car - the confrontation.

I hope Z.'s past troubles with the law weren't all over "confrontations". Were they?
Don't want to see a pattern here.

Don't "Fence" Me In

More good stuff at "Talk Left"

George Zimmerman : Witness Support and Legal Recap
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 11:25:57 AM EST


Read full article:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/24/122557/873


Edited Excepts:

Many have focused on Witness 6 (John) and Witness 13, but I'd encourage everyone to listen to the later interviews of W-11, who was the first to call 911 and lives with Jeremy at 1211 Twin Trees Lane.

Almost everything she heard matches up with Zimmermans account that the initial verbal confrontation began as George said, on the sidewalk west of "T" which runs along the side of their house with low bushes, that it turned the corner onto the shared path, the "helps" began as they were in back of her house, moving down to John's house. She heard John yell out, as he says. "Hey what's going on...should I call 911?" as someone kept yelling for help. Jeremy's interviews (W-20) are similar. You can also find John and Jeremy's interviews here.

As to the law and burden of proof on self-defense, the aggressor statute, Stand Your Ground and second degree murder, Florida law is very clear.

Here are some key legal points to keep in mind. These are based on my review of Florida statutes, case law and jury instructions.

1. To get a jury instruction on self defense, all Zimmerman must produce is some evidence, no matter how flimsy, even if it's just his own version of events.

2. The Aggressor Statute: Why Zimmerman is not the Aggressor, But If He Was, He Could Still Use Deadly Force

3. Once George Zimmerman introduces some evidence of self-defense and is entitled to a jury instruction, he has no other burden of proof. The state must disprove self-defense by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

4. Zimmerman does not have to testify to get a jury instruction on self-defense

5. The Rules of Evidence are not relaxed and Hearsay is not allowed at a Stand Your Ground Hearing:

6. The Danger George Zimmerman Feared Need not be Real or Actual.

7. Depraved Mind Requires Showing of Ill-Will, Hatred, Malice:

....read more
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/24/122557/873

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Thanks for posting those legal points. I had wondered what the law required. It looks good for George and if it goes to a jury he should do all right. What could the prosecution possibly say except that George was stalking and baiting Trayvon or that this is a race issue? George is kind of lucky to have that wide-eyed innocent look.

_________________
­
"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." Leviticus 19:15

It is a good article, good site, good lawyer (IMO)
There is more at the link.. including the relevant law. I just posted main headings.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

That link was so good I bookmarked it. A good place to find facts, photos, documents. Here's a paragraph I want an anwer to.

"Where is their evidence that Zimmerman's act of shooting Trayvon demonstrated a depraved mind and was an act "done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent," indicative of an indifference to human life, as required for a second degree murder conviction? What is their theory?"

Anybody got the anwer?

Jane

_________________
­
"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." Leviticus 19:15

Thought I'd bump this..... I can well imagine TM using the Watermelon Drink Can as a weapon.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

From Zimmerman Defence Site:
http://gzlegalcase.com/

Motion to Set Reasonable Bond

on 25 June 2012.

Mr. Zimmerman’s defense team has filed a Motion to Set Reasonable Bond in advance of the hearing scheduled for Friday, June 29. A copy of the motion is available below.

PDF (5 pages)
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/document ... e_bond.pdf

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Lead police detective in Trayvon shooting reassigned to patrol

By Rene Stutzman , Orlando Sentinel
Tue Jun 26 2012 4:09 PM

The lead Sanford police investigator in the Trayvon Martin shooting was transferred Tuesday from detective work to being a simple street cop, the department confirmed.

Chris Serino had asked for the change, the department said.

He will become a uniform patrol officer and work the night shift, said police spokesman Sgt. David Morgenstern.

Serino is not being demoted, Morgenstern said, and his rate of pay is unaffected.

Interim Police Chief Richard Myers was not available for comment.

Serino, a 15-year department veteran, is the detective who led the investigation into the Feb. 26 shooting that killed the unarmed black 17-year-old from Miami Gardens.

The gunman, George Zimmerman, 28, told police he acted in self-defense. Serino headed the much-criticized investigation that, once it was concluded, left police department managers convinced they did not have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman.

They had no credible evidence to counter Zimmerman's version of what happened, Serino said in March.

That decision set off weeks of civil rights protests in Sanford and across the country.




....more at link
http://mobile.orlandosentinel.com/p.p?m ... %26DPL%3D5

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I am not totally sure this was true self defense as I think Zimmerman acted too hastily. But I also don't think Trayvon was totally innocent either. I really doubt this would have been anything more than a scuffle if Zimmerman hadn't over reacted.