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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Hi all! :28
I don't think Z. set out to kill anyone either, that night. I don't.
He said he was going to the store. Fine. Carry the legal gun.

Then, he turned into a Neighborhood Watch thing, I think. The rules of any Neighborhood Watch say "no guns"
for their members. The Registered Neighborhood Watch groups "vet" and check out their members George didn't have a
Registered Neighborhood Watch group so wasn't "vetted". I read on one site of Registered Neighborhood Watch, one top official there said he doesn't think Z. would have been accepted as a Registered N.W. group. He also said he doesn't like Z's title "Captain" either. They don't use that word. They are many many advantages of having a Registered group ... and they list them.

At that point then when it turned from "a errand" into a Neighborhood Watch trip, there should have been no gun. :94 Shouldn't he have left his in the car? He surely knew, as N.W. G.'s say - "There could be trouble, don't confront, just report - we will take care of it!" That must be why they say NOT to carry them. To avoid tragedy's like this one. I do think a person acts different when they know they have a gun on them.

And - what IF George lost his suspicious black male? THAT would have been better than a dead boy who probably was not doing anything wrong that night - wouldn't it? Maybe Z. was tired of losing them? He said to the dispatcher "Those A** H***s always get away."

I wonder what Z.'s I.Q. is, and his E.Q.? Emotional Quotient? :95

:47 These are just my thoughts in reading about this. I have no agenda. I just don't get his on-going "choices". :78


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:57 pm 
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:80


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:21 pm 
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I wouldn't EVER mean to upset anyone - anyone. Life does that enough, to us.

This is just how I think. Obviously, Z. and I think NOTHING alike.

Just my instincts ... here that's all. :84
:79


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:37 pm 
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I smell controversy on the horizon! I'm saddl'in up! :22 Gosh darn my horse is dead!!! Can't somebody come up with a LIVE horse around here?!

All right...here's a little truth and speculation. George had a perfect right to be carrying a gun no matter where he was. He called for help when he saw he needed it. Then Trayvon scowls and hollars, "You got a problem?" Then he attacks George and beats him about the head and face. When Trayvon finally goes after George's gun, George grabbed it instead and fired.

Well? :30



From Mal:

Here's your live horse, Jane

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:45 pm 
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You called, Jane?

DON'T PANIC!

I see nothing in OPINIONS about GZ'd "Emotional Quotient" :24 have any bearing on the case?

Whatever his "Emotions" or IQ... that is not a crime.

It is though, just more clouding of the water.. it gets tedious

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:49 pm 
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rtmember wrote:
I smell controversy on the horizon! I'm saddl'in up! :22 Gosh darn my horse is dead!!! Can't somebody come up with a LIVE horse around here?!

All right...here's a little truth and speculation. George had a perfect right to be carrying a gun no matter where he was. He called for help when he saw he needed it. Then Trayvon scowls and hollars, "You got a problem?" Then he attacks George and beats him about the head and face. When Trayvon finally goes after George's gun, George grabbed it instead and fired.

Well? :30


Okay, maybe I haven't read everything on the case, but are we sure TM said that? Or are we taking GZ's word for it? Something about that guy doesn't scream out truthful boy scout! LOL Maybe TM was afraid for his life and reacted..GZ should have stood back..He's not a cop!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Try looking at the "forest" or the whole expanse across the horizon... and not one twig!!

The Gestalt :24

We have a well presented description of events... GZ version only, perhaps... but there is NO OTHER VERSION.

It is NOT SUFFICIENT to poke holes in piddling details of that story... GZ IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. He need not say another word (and probably wont)

THE STATE has to present AND PROVE (beyond reasonable doubt) a case..... what is that, do you think??

They have to PROVE it with evidence... what evidence?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Rem16 wrote:

Okay, maybe I haven't read everything on the case, but are we sure TM said that? Or are we taking GZ's word for it? Something about that guy doesn't scream out truthful boy scout! LOL Maybe TM was afraid for his life and reacted..GZ should have stood back..He's not a cop!


You ask.. "what if he didn't say that" what is the point of "what if"?

If you assert he said something else.. then present evidence.. to just GUESS and "what if" is silly.

I repeat..... the burden is on the prosecution.. they can't just do a Baez and open with a fairy tale... they have to present a case and prove it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Maybe physical evidence will give Trayvon's side here. There HAS to be 2 sides to everything, doesn't there? OR is it 3?
Yours, mine, and the truth ... so they say.

I think I would always look with a jaundiced eye at any murder defendant's comments. They will pull out all stops trying to save their own neck. Some even pay off people. GADS!!!

I think that's it!!! 78 Nothing personal at all with George Zimmerman. I sincerely mean that. It's just what IS ... that's all. He could be Bruce Smith, Robin Jones, any defendant. Won't they all lie, and their little :44 ??

Anything Goes :DN4

:45 R. Yes!
Hi Jane :27


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
You ask.. "what if he didn't say that" what is the point of "what if"?

If you assert he said something else.. then present evidence.. to just GUESS and "what if" is silly.

I repeat..... the burden is on the prosecution.. they can't just do a Baez and open with a fairy tale... they have to present a case and prove it.


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Oh Lordy Lordy you are right! The defense just has to throw out their fairy tale version, whatever it will be, and NOT have to prove a thing. (Ala Baez's opening statement). Then the Prosecution has to fight back with facts only. :31 :97

That is it, isn't it? :11 THAT is the way the system is set up here isn't it? We all saw that with Baez.

I'm Beginning To See The Light :DN4


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:15 pm 
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It is the Best system of justice ever devised.

INNOCENT until proven guilty.... the onus being on the PROSECUTION to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a defendant is guilty of a crime.

Thank heavens we have it!!

Though my faith in the JURY component is low.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:30 pm 
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R I agree with your above post 1000%.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Reposted from comments section elsewhere, found this to be a very good summary of the whole situation:

Quote:
Restating the obvious in a summary fashion, what I recognize is the important thing about the DeeDee deposition is that she places TM safely back home while GZ was still up at the top of the T nearly a hundred yards away. Comparing the actual timelines derived from the time of connection for GZ and the audio being clocked and similarly adjusting to real time of day the residents 911 calls by clocking the audio and disregarding the less accurate CAD report approximated timelines, an accurized timeline of events corresponding to real time of day can be examined….accurate enough to be 100% certain that TM doubled back, backtracked by his own foolish choice and confronted GZ evidently for reason of being annoyed by the unwelcome but entirely lawful “watchfulness” of GZ who had “given offense” by such behavior.

So it was TM who for reason of a “perceived provocation” (which was no actual provocation) then unlawfully escalated a confrontation to which GZ was simply reacting. It was actually TM who was being overtly aggressive in escalating the course of events which led to the shooting. GZ was certainly not involved in any unlawful act by “profiling” a suspicious person, nor by following at a distance and surveilling a suspicious person. In fact it would not have been unlawful for GZ to have even been more assertive and to have approached near toTM and asked TM if he was a guest of a resident or a new resident in the neighborhood. GZ could have used any pretense or reason to speak to TM and look him over and that would not have been unlawful either. It is not against the law to initiate a conversation with a stranger and there are no “fighting words” or other provocative actions reported by witnesses attributed to GZ which can rebut, much less overcome the presumption based on the direct evidence that TM escalated events beyond words and was himself the aggressor in terms of the legal definition for unlawful conduct which involved a battery upon GZ.

Within a narrow definition for what actually is the continuous sequence of events relevant to the shooting itself, the “event clock” for the actual alteration between the two persons was “reset” by the distance which set the subjects apart, when TM arrived safely home at the residence where TM was a guest. TM made a bad decision to go back to confront GZ and that encounter led to a battery upon GZ. The timeline and the evidence shows no unlawful act by GZ preface to the shooting, nor is there any evidence that GZ was an aggressor closing the distance to close quarters and escalating or provoking the events which transpired. In the distorted paranoid delusion of a stoner thug it may have seemed there was some “right of retribution” against someone who dared to encroach on his “space” by unwelcome surveillance in the same way as a drunken bad tempered combative bar patron will preface a battery on another patron by the utterance of “what you looking at” to get that person to turn in the direction of the “sucker punch” already in transit with impeccable timing. The top of the T encounter of TM with GZ appears to be a perfectly parallel kind of scenario, where a combative stoner simply made an unwise choice of victim and got killed for his trouble.

This is indicated by a preponderence of the evidence and all the direct evidence of witnesses corroborates this analysis. All the alternate analyses are far fetched conjecture and speculation for which there is no supporting evidence. There is no probable cause for any criminal charge to have been filed in the first place against GZ. The entire prosecution of GZ is a politically motivated and manufactured fraud. No indictement would have been returned by a Grand Jury which is precisely why that constitutional right of GZ was circumvented and violated in this particular and fraudulent prosecution.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Thank you Geosurface.

A clear and well written account.

What can I say... every well reasoned outline of the circumstances leaves me dumbfounded... why is this matter proceeding through the courts at all?

There seems only one answer.. that the charges were "trumped up" by a Probable Cause submission that was at best incomplete, and I think actually deliberately false.

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 Post subject: Moved
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:43 am 
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Sad thing is, I think it's just as possible for 12 dipshits to convict an innocent man (GZ) and it was for a different 12 dipshits to let a guilty woman (Casey) off the hook.

I have absolutely zero confidence that his innocence will shield him from decades in prison, it certainly didn't shield him from unlawful, unwarranted charges or a nationwide witch hunt based on ignorance.


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 Post subject: Moved
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:53 am 
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Agreed

I worry too.

When you look around at "average" in society... it is NOT a very high standard.. so heaven help us when we rely on decisions made by 12 members selected from that pool.

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 Post subject: Moved
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:03 am 
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To my mind the following facts speak highly of Zimmerman being HONEST that night and in the time following:

1.) Did not insist on going to hospital, did not make his wounds out to be worse than they were. Considered it more important to help the investigation. He could’ve easily taken them up on the hospital trip and used that time to formulate a better version in his head.

2.) Did not insist on lawyer present before any questioning. Again, he could’ve used the time while a lawyer was en route to formulate a better version of events in his head. This also, to me, indicates the sort of unguarded willingness to cooperate and answer all questions posed to him that is indicative of an innocent man.

3.) He only fired once. If he had done something criminal by shooting Trayvon, or had malicious, depraved intent to kill someone when it wasn’t necessary to do so, he would not have been likely to trust that one bullet would do the trick and risk an injured Trayvon putting the lie to his account from a hospital bed shortly thereafter. It is clear his intention was never to kill Trayvon, but merely to preserve his own life and stop a vicious assault which wasn’t stopping either through third party intervention, or through Trayvon’s conscience and mercy kicking in. George clearly evidenced, by screaming at the top of his lungs and not going for the gun earlier, that he was in fact prepared to endure a beating and do his best to absorb and fend off blows until help came, so why suddenly employ the gun at that particular time? When the likelihood of witnesses staring out windows and seeing if he did anything questionable was higher than ever, and the likelihood of police arriving to see him do something questionable was higher than ever? Because something fundamentally changed about the assault, and the only thing I can think of is exactly what he says. Trayvon went for the gun.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:06 am 
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It's tough being a moderator when posts are jumping back and forth between Casey Anthony and GZ....

Posts about either case are likely to invite more comment and so NOT be just a passing reference.

Please try and help keep posts on topic for whichever case thread you are posting in.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:17 am 
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All good points Geosurface.

I would add a point I have made from early on....

If GZ was out to stalk, hunt, kill ... he would not have called the cops first and delayed long enough to know they could arrive at any second and witness his "crime"

THAT does not pass the Judge Judy test.

It does not make sense and so it's not true

I think this case is so clear and simple that it could be resolved by Judge Judy within a 20 min segment (or less)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:30 am 
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Rumpole wrote:
All good points Geosurface.

I would add a point I have made from early on....

If GZ was out to stalk, hunt, kill ... he would not have called the cops first and delayed long enough to know they could arrive at any second and witness his "crime"

THAT does not pass the Judge Judy test.

It does not make sense and so it's not true

I think this case is so clear and simple that it could be resolved by Judge Judy within a 20 min segment (or less)


And frankly if GZ was black too, and this had been an older, more responsible black adult male having to shoot a punk delinquent 17 year old black male to save his own life, it WOULD have been seen as very simple by the public, and would not have drawn so many flies of opportunism.


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