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liesel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:53 pm 
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John_Galt
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:53 pm 
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They should have simpler instructions.

Unless the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trayvon was not on top of George, punching George in the face and beating George's head against the sidewalk, then you must find George not guilty of all charges.
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liesel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:56 pm 
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flgirl543 wrote:

I'm think it's time to go to professional jurors. I've avoided discussing the case outside internet boards, but whenever I do, I'm taken back by those who feel George was wrong on some level...he should've stayed in the car...I don't like guns, he shouldn't have had a gun...I can't decide, sometimes I agree with defense, then state. I just imagine if similar minds are on the jury. With all the explanation about self defense, I can't understand how there could be any question George acted in self defense.

I'd bet most of those who made the comments you listed did not watch much of the trial. The jurors are required to watch it all. :)

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kbp
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Hey all! Here's a thought...

    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF DEADLY FORCE
    [...]
    If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony
    Page 12

Six jurors must agree, and they have three alternative reasons to agree to self-defense. I can't imagine all six going with the same reason and certainly expect one or more to go with the last alternative highlighted.

Now go to the jury instructions and do a word search for "forcible" ...this is the ONLY place it is included. I'd absolutely expect somebody to want to know WTH it means exactly.

That said, my guess is they are NOT to JUSTIFIABLE USE OF DEADLY FORCE yet.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Just said something about inside information. If what Hornsby said is correct, if it was on the note, then word might have spread through a leak in the court room or attorneys. Also if it was over heard because if it is true I am sure it was talked about by the prosecutors to TM's family and by the Defense to GZ and his family.
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liesel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:59 pm 
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chipbennett wrote:

This is not an engineer's mentality. An engineer would define all assumptions up-front, and would go for the most efficient process - that is: answer self-defense question first, before bothering with the harder question of whether the State proved its case.

The go-through-the-jury-questions-front-to-back-and-page-by-page approach is more of a lawyer's mentality. (There are two jurors who would potentially evince a lawyer's mentality.)

I stand corrected. (But still think engineers want to get things right and will do the work to get there.) :86

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murderbythebook
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:01 pm 
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flgirl543 wrote:

I'm think it's time to go to professional jurors. I've avoided discussing the case outside internet boards, but whenever I do, I'm taken back by those who feel George was wrong on some level...he should've stayed in the car...I don't like guns, he shouldn't have had a gun...I can't decide, sometimes I agree with defense, then state. I just imagine if similar minds are on the jury. With all the explanation about self defense, I can't understand how there could be any question George acted in self defense.


I think one juror wants to slam George for something and manslaughter is her choice. There shouldn't be a second charge tacked on. I have also said there should be one professional mediator on each jury just to advise, but not vote.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:02 pm 
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flgirl543 wrote:

I'm think it's time to go to professional jurors. I've avoided discussing the case outside internet boards, but whenever I do, I'm taken back by those who feel George was wrong on some level...he should've stayed in the car...I don't like guns, he shouldn't have had a gun...I can't decide, sometimes I agree with defense, then state. I just imagine if similar minds are on the jury. With all the explanation about self defense, I can't understand how there could be any question George acted in self defense.


My problems with professional jurors would be on who chooses them, what requirements would there be to be one and who decides what those requirements would be, and what happens when you end up with professional jurors who have lost touch or begin to have bias and/or think as one like journalists seem to have started to do.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:04 pm 
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liesel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:09 pm 
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SheStone wrote:
Just said something about inside information. If what Hornsby said is correct, if it was on the note, then word might have spread through a leak in the court room or attorneys. Also if it was over heard because if it is true I am sure it was talked about by the prosecutors to TM's family and by the Defense to GZ and his family.

Talk around the 'net is that it was Frank Taffe, fwiw.

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murderbythebook
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Crump is worried. He's spinning like a top. The Martin family is staying away.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:13 pm 
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liesel wrote:

Talk around the 'net is that it was Frank Taffe, fwiw.


I didn't see who it was since I was in another room. We will have to wait and see if it turns out to be true or not.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:14 pm 
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murderbythebook wrote:
Crump is worried. He's spinning like a top. The Martin family is staying away.


Where are you seeing or hearing about that? That would be interesting if true. :95

Or did you just mean his usual spinning.


Last edited by SheStone on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kbp
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:15 pm 
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A hung jury gives George a headstart if there's a next go around. Gives the state a headache. Nelson would probably like that better than a guilty verdict subject to appeals ...unless she's been promised a pay raise no matter what the outcome is.


Last edited by kbp on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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liesel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:

I'll check INTERnational :neener

(Actually it is national beamed worldwide (no ads) )


:neener :fish
:lol

:86

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unitron
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:16 pm 
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liesel wrote:
...
It could be one over-tired, stressed out, juror. It could be one juror with an engineer's mentality of getting things right, dotting every "i" and crossing every "t", following protocols exactly to prevent error.


So you're saying one of the jurors is Dr. Bao in drag?
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seeing_eye
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Rumpole wrote:
The traditions probably work out OK for most cases.

MOST defendants are GUILTY... an innocent defendant is not the norm.

This case is unusual. An innocent defendant... and an overly corrupt persecution.

In this case, we have an innocent defendant....and criminal prosecutors.
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murderbythebook
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:18 pm 
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SheStone wrote:
Where are you seeing or hearing about that? That would be interesting if true. :95

Or did you just mean his usual spinning.


He's on HLN giving comments about what's going on now.
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:19 pm 
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:TF

How long does it take to write out a more specific question.

:doh
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SheStone
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:20 pm 
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murderbythebook wrote:

He's on HLN giving comments about what's going on now.


Okay. You think he appears to be worried?
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