_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I went back to TL to reread about 776.032 and one of the lawyers there brought up an interesting/horrifying fact.

If this case is dropped tomorrow, that will still leave Zimmerman open to civil lawsuits. Not to mention that the State can turn around an charge him all over again with a lesser charge like manslaughter. We need to quit wishing this to just go away.

Zimmerman needs that Self-Defense Immunity Hearing. And he needs it to be successful.

I believe that he has a preponderance of evidence for that hearing. He has documented injuries, he has two adult witnesses placing Martin on top of him in the altercation, and his DNA is on the lower cuff of Martin's shirt.

Unlike Lester, Debra Nelson seems to be very much a "by-the-book" judge. But for her to rule in his favor it will most likely put her career in jeopardy as an elected official. Not to mention the death threats that would surely follow. That is a huge pill to swallow when one is trying to do their job of following the law to the letter.

Just as an acquittal in a jury trial will still leave Zimmerman open to law suits. I am not sure that jury instructions include immunity. As I understand it... Only a judge can determine immunity. A jury determines to what degree, if any, of guilt.

I am not going to argue legal details.. especially with posters at TL, but..........

I have seen other people who seem to be knowledgeable about Florida law, with differing opinions to that. Perhaps it depends on whether the case is dismissed WITH or WITHOUT prejudice?
Do you have a link to the TL discussion on the issue of what happens if charges are dropped?

As you say.... an immunity hearing should be a "no-brainer" based on evidence, but political considerations have already infested this case, so who knows. I think though if Nelson does not grant immunity.. it will be granted on appeal.. still before any trial. Even if Nelson has an eye on her own career... she might well consider the effect of her decision being reversed.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,1992.0.html

Here you go. A couple of pages of lawyers and laypersons discussing this.

Do you prefer for us to embed the links? I can do it that way so as to not skew.

It is a pretty good discussion on 776.032. It is part of the main thread of Self Defense an Stand Your Ground laws so there are several subsections that are pretty interesting. I know from reading at CTH that Sundance doesn't have much of a view of Jeralyn.

LOL! You will notice that I stayed out of this conversation. As you would say, it is out of my pay grade. ((That is my new response to questions I don't have answers to. It is perfect!))

Thanks... I'll read later.

I am watching and updating live Trial of Vanessa Coleman retrial (Christian/Newsom murder/rape/torture)

I regard Jeralyn as THE best legal authority I have access to on this case.. she not only makes sense and seems to have a depth of knowledge of Florida law, but she puts things in a way that a lay person can follow.

I can see why Sundance would be at odds with her political views... I am too... but I regard her legal opinion highly.

You can post links either way.

I post just the url... it's easier and sometimes people miss that a word or phrase is a hyperlink.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I read that... and am more confused than when I started
But... the facts of this case are (annoyingly) simple to me.... lawyers do tend to complicate things.

I do think it is clear that GZ had no expectations of catching up to, let alone confronting TM. I don't see he can be seen to be taking his firearm into a situation where he expected there to be a confrontation.

To me this case demonstrates perfectly the very LEGITIMATE reason a person carries a concealed weapon... to defend oneself from an attack.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I don't think it is the lawyers that complicate the law. Unless I have hired them, I got to admit...I don't trust many of them. LOL!

ITA, who expects to find a person that has run away from you to be right where he was when you lost him? It defies logic.

IMO, until someone can explain to me, in reasonable response, how that young man managed to find himself back where he disappeared from after 4+ minutes... then finds himself in a verbal confrontation that he initiated...that then escalated to injuries of another concluding with that gunshot, Zimmerman has a solid self-defense case.

I just moderated MYSELF!!

Moved my post to the "Introduction" thread... it was more of a rant than an on topic post

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=63&p=17289#p17289

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Good boy, Rumpe! Hahaa

Thanks for the link, Deb. Very interesting read.

Who is Joseph R Flood? And who is he representing? See courtesy copy.

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/document ... .09.12.pdf

http://www.drml-law.com/attorneys/josephflood.shtml

((You are very welcome, Packy))

Hi Deb.

Good question... you have an eye for detail..... I open and "read" all the docs.. but I have to say, I missed the name in the list of CC.

My guess:
One of the witnesses has his own lawyer?

You HOMEWORK: Ask Jeralyn and report back

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

You know you can post there too, right? LOL! I post here because, while I might read at the Treehouse, I have never commented very much. Maybe three times and nothing of consequence. I am not comfortable there bein' as I am one of them lib democrats or progs or whatever the heck they are calling us these days!



SO this is what I did...
Here is the link:
Link to Thread on J. R. Flood

Well done... You get an A+ for the homework

I do post at TL... but not a lot.. not because of politics.. just I don't know enough about legal matters to contribute. I read and gain info rather than supply any. I do contribute when I see an opening.

I read at the CTH for a while and didn't contribute there... but it's easier for me to join in there, so I do now.

You are not alone being of a "loony left" persuasion here.... there is a lot of it about

Don't be afraid to post at CTH. There are other confessed Liberals there... they are treated well.... Jello33 comes to mind, as just one example.

I have decided to NOT have full on Party Political threads... it always gets personal. I hope I can make everyone welcome.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Trayvon Martin Family Interview - Trayvon Martin Is an American of the Year









Horton sends them off with a laugh: A'ight, knuckleheads, get going.

Read more: Trayvon Martin Family Interview - Trayvon Martin Is an American of the Year - Esquire
http://www.esquire.com/features/america ... z2CGVw0xxf

So much for Trayvon not being strong enough with his height/weight to bring down the much softer, pudgier Zimmerman.

These are player quotes while the coach says that Martin played defensive end. I have no clue about football...Texan or not.

Also from the article it says that Stephen retraced Martin's final route a couple of days after the shooting. The way it reads, Stephen goes through the shortcut either at the Taafe TH or the one closer to the clubhouse.


Why doesn't he "get to the sidewalk where" Trayvon was confronted, detained or whatever? It sounds like TM stopped voluntarily. Where would he get that information from if not from Dee Dee?

Personally, I believe that TM came back to the "T." I have never believed that he was laying in wait for Zimmerman because in Dee Dee interview she says that he (TM) says lost him(GZ). She tells Bernie that six times, regardless of how de la Rionda tries to lead her down a different path. Zimmerman was still in his truck. Dee Dee never says anything about Martin seeing him get out of the truck to follow him.

There are only three options for Martin's paths at the intersection. He runs up to near the Green house and returns, he turned the corner and hid in the bushes, or some combination of both.

Thanks for the Esquire article....

The first thing that struck me is INCONSISTENCIES... I wonder if Trayvonites will now accept that "inconsistencies" exist here as well...and concede GZ is actually very consistent in his telling of events

Even though the article is a pro-TM piece... as you point out there is some valuable information in GZ's defence.

The only source of information about just before TM attacked GZ... is George himself.
He says TM came at him from his left (as he walked back towards his truck) about at the "T"
From the left and behind as George describes... so TM was either hiding there in the bushes or/and had come back from Brandi Green's unit. We wont know too much more about whether TM waited there or came back to there from GZ... he does not know.
DeeDee says TM got to he "Father's house"... but who knows. I have always thought DeeDee was a good witness for the defence.. so I can not for the life of me understand why Trayvonites continue to think her testimony makes the case for them?
My thought is that TM did get to Brandi's porch and left something... pure speculation on my part which I would NOT expect to be part of the case unless Brandi or Chad or Tracy come forward and confirm what they found " on the porch"

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Sorry... when I say:

The only source of information about just before TM attacked GZ... is George himself.

That is..... ASSUMING that Marinane Dave's mystery witness, who saw the entire confrontation, turns out to be the usual figment of Marinane's imagination... and of course assuming they do not water board the Cockatoo and get the bugger to talk!!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

You are very funny tonight! Their heads will implode before they accept anything that points in Zimmerman's favor.

Over on Reality Chatter, a few are starting to accept a different POV but it has been a long hard road. We have gone from emotional discourse (ranting at me) to much more intellectual conversations just this past week. It has been a good debate week. ((That the mods started editing out all the racial comments helped too. Got rid of the more radical ones.))

Sorry but I have to disagree. I just don't buy that Martin made it all the way to the porch. If Martin were going to drop off something, say illegal, to return for a possible beat down, why wouldn't he drop off the heavy AZ can and the candy? Both items were in his center front pocket and were removed by LE. He put that can in his pocket, IMO, to free up his hands. We know from the 7-Eleven video that the candy went directly into his pocket after purchase and the can was originally in the plastic bag found on the sidewalk.

He has to know that any illegal drugs found on the premises of the Green TH would automatically be attached to him.

If, and that is a big IF, he had overheard Zimmerman at any time talking to Dispatch, he would know that police were involved at that stage. He didn't care. He didn't care when W6 (John) told them he was calling the police. He continued the assault.

I don't think he had anything illegal on him. However, I do think that he and Stephen toked up after their 8:30am jaunt to 7-Eleven Sunday morning for Black and Milds. He had trace amounts of THC in the blood from his chest cavity. IDK, about urine because we have never seen the full tox report.

Have I warned you that I make very long posts? One of my cyber friends called me verbose. I would have agreed to garrulous, long-winded, mouthy, just about anything else...but verbose? pfffft.

That darned Cockatoo is having a better time than I am. Waterboarding...is that like surfing?? For the Brain?? ;-)

Since I often just post to myself here.. I ain't about to complain about long posts.

You can disagree about the porch thing... it is just a bit of speculation on my part.. not critical to the overall narrative, and I would agree just speculation with insufficient evidence to back it, but...............

There is the mention by Brandi about TM being shot just sittin' on the porch. And really there is so MUCH TIME for TM to have got home... or quite a long wait in the bushes. I do see the strong possibility that the 3 stooges at 7Eleven bought blunts for TM... besides... I don't think TM walked all the way to the shop just for skittles and a Watermelon Drink (for Chad)... I think he may well have gone there to meet the stooges and deal.
The skittles were already in his pocket from 7Eleven, the drink can I think he may well have chosen to keep , in its plastic 7Eleven bag.. as a weapon to swing at Da Cracka... hitting him in the nose ..... lost the bag, but regained the can and shoved it in front pocket of his hoodie...... all just guesses... nothing I would hesitate to abandon... nothing I would raise at trial (yet) but I would have a good go at deposing Brandi, Tracy, and Chad to get some info on what (if anything) was found on the porch.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I don't think they would waterboard the cockatoo.... not now that your boy won the election

... it's "enhanced interrogation".... but next time there is a story about Guantanamo Bay... look out for one of the inmates having a white "parrot" on his shoulder.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light