I agree, there's certainly a sense of lynch mob mentality in some forums. I can't imagine somebody disagreeing with the majority on here and being subject to personal rants, or anyone feeling the need to team up in an attempt to drive away a disagreeing poster. There does seem to be a very personal stance taken by many as you mention.

I felt personalisation came across strongest from those who were only to see the incident as a domestic violence case. I was initially shocked at how some people wouldn't budge from this theory, however it soon became apparent that many of the people unable to entertain an alternative theory had been victims of DV or similar themselves. I'm not for one second playing down the seriousness of DV, which we all agree is despicable, it's just that some people were inclined to only look for similar traits, and would then use a fixed set of 'rules' to establish that OP fitted into this category. It appeared some people 'wanted' it to be DV and any evidence to the contrary fell on deaf ears.

Hi Steve, junebug.. we've missed you.

I agree, its hard to imagine much in the way of "substantive" witnesses for the defense to come. Perhaps (don't quote me) something further on the screams. MY advice (FWIW) would be to present some simple facts about human perception from an "expert psychologist" Not rocket science stuff... common sense and common knowledge.. but it would be beneficial to have it spelled out and explained in evidence, and given the "weight" of an expert attached to it.

It seems to me that the SA system while based on familiar principles, is different in significant details. Without going into all of those, I think the upshot is that the "Closing arguments" will play a much bigger part than we are used to. I think both sides will present detail of their "version" and their case, pulling out details from all the evidence to propose timeline of events etc. That's a bit of a guess on my part, but the alternative to leave things as they have been presented would be a bit of a farce IMO. I guess it could be that the Judge essentially runs her own inquiry now... sifting through evidence herself to piece it all together.. but I think that is a stretch. Without some sort of comprehensive "bringing together" of a case by lawyers.. especially by Nel... then I don't see that much of a prosecution case has been presented at all. I am thinking of the basics of any Judicial system. The BURDEN is on the State to present a case and PROVE it beyond reasonable doubt. The Defense do not have to PROVE anything. One example is the screams. The defense have presented a very reasonable explanation of those (with some proof) It is up to the State to counter that. While we are on the screams.. the BEST evidence relating to screams is the overall time line of events. The screams were at a time after Reeva was dead.

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Pistorius trial to resume after 'game changer' mental tests
Friday 27 June 2014

Oscar Pistorius's murder trial resumes on Monday after a 30-day psychiatric assessment. Channel 4 News speaks to one of South Africa's leading lawyers about how its outcome will affect the trial.

Outcomes in brief:

• Assessors conclude that Pistorius suffers no anxiety problems.
• They find he had some diminished responsibility: if he is convicted, this may be considered as a mitigating factor during sentencing.
• If if is found that he did not have mental "capacity" brought about by the alleged mental condition(s), he cannot be convicted of an offence. The case could in theory collapse in this instance - but that scenario is highly unlikely.

...more at link
http://www.channel4.com/news/oscar-pist ... sychiatric

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes, aavi.

Seems to me Nel may have fallen into a TRAP!! Only he was the one who set it up and stamped his feet to make the Judge spring it.
Clearly OP was NOT going to try for any sort of "insanity plea". He certainly did NOT want to be found to be Nuts generally and so spend a long time locked up in a mental institution. However, "insane at the time of, and in the circumstances of, the incident" will do OP nicely Nel may well have provided the official stamp and evidence for that "escape clause" to work.

What was Nel thinking?

That is a rhetorical question.. I take your point aavi that Nel may well have been thinking "Get OP locked up while awaiting evaluation"

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I will be shocked if a report does not reflect a beyond normal level of anxiety. Or it may be called a hyper vigillance.

Oscar was in the presence of several others who observed him to be on an almost routine defcon 1 level of alert. It was exhibited in his own tweet about thinking the agitating wash machine posed a danger. How that could be described as normal is beyond any norms I'm familiar with. Sammantha saw it, his friend saw it when he grabbed a gun and investigated a noise caused by a windstorm. A reporter that came to interview him saw it, Dr Vorster saw it to such an extent that she called it a disorder. This is a doctor that even the SA prosecution has used as a State witness. And even the fact that he told workmen to put the ladders inside shows a paranoia of extremes. This goes hand-in-hand with his personal environment of staggering crime and his history with his mother. The fact that he is an amputee just amps up that anxiety even more.

That channel 4 reporter who thinks that Nel bringing a mental referral was "genius" is showing his bias and whistling past the graveyard of reality. It was Nel's last Hail Mary to try to screw Oscar which sunk like the Bismark.

Any psychiatrist that doesn't see Oscar as a hair trigger hyper alert guy which he has exhibited himself to be over and over, needs a psychiatrist themselves.

If he wasn't, Reeva would be alive.

Yes, aavi.

Seems to me Nel may have fallen into a TRAP!! Only he was the one who set it up and stamped his feet to make the Judge spring it.
Clearly OP was NOT going to try for any sort of "insanity plea". He certainly did NOT want to be found to be Nuts generally and so spend a long time locked up in a mental institution. However, "insane at the time of, and in the circumstances of, the incident" will do OP nicely Nel may well have provided the official stamp and evidence for that "escape clause" to work.

What was Nel thinking?

That is a rhetorical question.. I take your point aavi that Nel may well have been thinking "Get OP locked up while awaiting evaluation"

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes.

Oscar is like a soldier that has controlled PTSD from a war zone. He has the ability to function relatively well in normal society but retains all the subliminal effects caused by his childhood and the reality of a mother who handled situations in a confronting aggressive way. Monkey see--monkey do. Then you combine that with the average fear of crime of all South Africans and it's not expected that this person will have a super sensitive "self preservation" mentality? Than top it off with the fact that he has a physical limitation which few could possibly know the disadvantages of.

What cinched it for me was the doctor's testimony and her unequivocal stating that it was genuine and backed by symptoms that couldn't be faked such as involuntary body responses of sweating and turning pale when reliving the Valentine's night. This is a doctor who was so highly regarded she sat on and chaired panels that were charged with doing other exact replica mental evaluations. She would have easily differentiated between whether that was fear for what could happen to him or devastation that he was experiencing in the loss of someone that he planned to spend his future with.

The prosecution case doesn't have one single element of the charge that has been proved. There isn't one contention that isn't refuted by equally plausible and contrary testimony. If the laws of evidence are strictly adhered to in closing, it will be the equivalent of OJ Simpson trying to tell the judge why he didn't do it when his DNA profile shows that the blood at the murder scene along the pathway could only be a one in 52 billion chance that it was someone else who left the blood drops.

Now with this evaluation, the psychiatrist team will have talked to OP's family members at length who will certainly corroborate how Oscar was. Let alone the fact that if he made any incriminating statement (which I don't believe anything incriminating was there to state in the first place) it couldn't be admitted into evidence as part of the evaluation no matter what he said.

So talk about a lose-lose. The only thing that could make it worse for Nel is if Roux calls Hilton Botha. And I really fervently hope like hell that he does. Nel will be over here ............................

Later today the trial resumes... (3:30AM EST tomorrow for US peeps).

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

It will be very interesting today to see what determinations have been made.

Regardless, there will be no surprises I think.

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Hi Wroughead.

Yes.

It will also be VERY interesting to see if all the people keen on OP case turn up here again and post

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Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

yes will it hold our interest, I wonder as it was beginning to drag before this enforced break.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Provided they FINALLY get off their arses and put some effort in to moving things along...I can stand another few days.

... But not much chance of THAT!!

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Lets hope that Nel has been in rehab during the delay... and he is over his friggin TEA addiction

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have noticed during this trial and others a phenomenon not seen in the UK judiciary, or hopefully ever will be.

Witnesses sitting in the body of the courtroom prior to giving their evidence. To me, this is an outrage!

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Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

I agree Wroughead.... the State witnesses in particular sit with the prosecutors.. like they are part of the prosecution as opposed to just witnesses that the prosecution call... very strange.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Sometimes too witnesses can be recalled. After they will have heard others' evidence, so wrong. It baffles me.

_________________
Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prison of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well~Peter Ustinov

Well the damned Judge calls for early Tea Break

I am very close to giving up on this trial. I don't really care any more.

All that occurs to me is that Nel should be locked up... or at the very least fitted with a muzzle

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Someone has put it all together to show the sleaze that this prosecutor is.


Oscar Pistorius Trial -Nel leads witnesses



It comes as close as you can get to prosecutor misconduct and testifying on behalf of a witness.

He's deliberately misleading this orthopedic doctor now about walking on his stumps. Nel knows full well he was using his other hand for balance against objects, the wall, or putting his other hand on the floor to maintain his balance. It was as clear as Oscar could make it in his testimony which Nel is deliberately omitting when he reads passages to the doctor.

This charlatan is a true pos. Judge Masipa is embarrassing him and showing it to the uneducated. I hope Roux finishes the job when he re-directs. I never cease to be amazed at the detestable levels this slug will dare to utilize.

Thanks aavi... I have posed that vid before.... but appropriate to do it again. I put a copy in the reference thread as well... so I can find it

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light