Has it been established where Dunn's firearm was at the beginning of all of this, like when the car he was in pulled into the parking lot?

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Took my time machine into the shop for service and they said they'd get on it first thing last week.

I have seen it said it was in glove box.

I am protecting my "virtue" and trying to remain an evidence details "virgin" (mostly), other that what is presented in Court

So if there is any dispute over whether his gun was in the glove box.... it will need to be raised in court

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I haven't followed this case either. My computer sound is screwed up, so I cant hear the video and driving me crazy!

This is what is making me go hmmmm.. from article linked

"Strolla questioned why they didn’t go for help in one of the nearby stores. Stornes said the plaza was less busy than the gas station. Thompson says as soon as they got there, he called 911. He insisted the only phone calls he made were to let loved ones know what had happened, and not to come pick up a gun or weapon which Strolla says Dunn thought he saw."

And this says he made calls, as in plural. Yet didn't call 911? And went BACK to the place where guy was shooting at them?

IMO

The first 7 shots could be consistent with Dunn responding to perceived threat. If you listen to surveillance video shots heard... rapid bang, bang, bang (3), then almost immediately, bang bang bang bang (4) Only 6 bullet holes in doors so one shot perhaps missed everything? Hit the ground?

The longer pause before final 3 shots is less easy to explain. Teens were retreating. The immediate "threat" was gone, and going further away. Especially the shot through rear quarter window high up (Dunn must have been standing, out of his car?)

However... perhaps Strolla will argue it was all in the "heat of battle"/"fog of war"?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Evidence tech: Nine bullet holes found on the Durango
Updated: 10:47 a.m. Saturday, Feb. 8, 2014 | Posted: 8:02 a.m. Saturday, Feb. 8, 2014
By Stephanie Brown

Jacksonville, FL — A special Saturday session in the trial of Michael Dunn is featuring a meticulous look through gunshot related evidence.

State Attorney Angela Corey questioned evidence technician Det. Andrew Kipple for more than an hour, walking through each of the shell casings, fragments and bullet holes he documented in and around the Durango where the four teens were sitting. He located nine holes on the SUV.

...more at link
http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/sta ... y-t/ndHcq/

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

A couple of things worth keeping in mind....

1. The lynch mob types are all saying the prosecution are presenting a fantastic case, and defence is weak... the defence attorney is useless. They said exactly that in GZ case (until after the acquittal when they "forgot" they had been praising Bernie and Guy and the gang, and convinced themselves in a delusional flight of fancy that they had "said all along" that the prosecution were losing on purpose?).
I think the prosecution for this case are at least presenting a case (Bernie had no case and his witnesses simply confirmed the reality that it was a simple self defence case that should never have been charged).

2. We are still hearing only the prosecution case presented. You would expect them to be "winning" at this stage. But it is by no means an absolute. Strolla is sewing some seeds of doubt. Assisted by some glaring lack of attention to detail by Cops. Sadly it seems that with every case there are aspects of slack investigation... basic procedure not followed.

Looking at Dunn... he simply does not engender strong support, but even unlikable guys are innocent until proven guilty. There is no claim that this is a "hate" crime (based on race)... even Corey has not played the race card. That seems to leave the motivation of simple RAGE on Dunn's part, and as unsympathetic a character as he is... I don't see that as what happened. No evidence of uncontrolled rage in the past. And he has carried a gun for some time without whipping it out when annoyed. I can see at least "reasonable doubt" in this case. Dunn claims he was threatened and acted in self defence.. the BURDEN is on the State to prove otherwise. They have not done that yet.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

So far, I agree with you, Rumpole. Dunn stated he saw what he thought was a firearm and shot in self defense. I am still concerned with the number of shots, but it's possible that being in a panic might be an explanation. I certainly think it is suspect that the teens drove away from the scene and came back. That certainly puts reasonable doubt in my mind. As far as I can see, there is no way the prosecution can prove that they did not have a gun since you can't prove a negative with a negative.

I sure felt sorry for his girlfriend today. She was so emotional. (And I don't care what anyone else thinks, I greatly admire anyone who takes their responsibility of caring for their pet seriously.)

Even though I suspect Dunn will be convicted there's this little voice telling me there's a slim chance that it will end in an acquittal or hung jury.

85% chance of a conviction, 10% chance of an acquittal, and 5% chance of a hung jury.

The fact that there's a witness that told the 911 operator that it looked like they were stashing something and the fact the police didn't secure/search the area for 4 days leaves some room for doubt.

The last couple of cases I have not been comfortable with "lesser included charges" being involved. It seems to me that the burden on Prosecution should be to PROVE what they charge a person with... so it's guilty or else acquittal. I think over-charging is a trick ... a bit of game play... really going for something less. I see it likely to work often with juries. Seeing the Murder charge NOT proved beyond reasonable doubt... they opt for "guilty of something" as a compromise. Yet as we saw in GZ case... easy to say "just manslaughter then"... but the penalties for that are not much less than for murder. (especially with a firearm involved). In this case specifically... if there is evidence that Dunn never felt threatened, that he was the aggressor, then it is Murder (I think Murder2 rather than Murder1... but IANAL.. and that should be a distinction made on basis of details of applicable law). IF there is reasonable doubt... some indication that Dunn may well have been threatened... then IMO he should be acquitted... The Self Defence applies... or it doesn’t.
I think "Compromise Verdicts" are a travesty.

The Cynical Prosecution "game" of overcharging may well go out of fashion real quick if there were NOT compromise verdicts

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

In many cases, I think the overcharging is done to try to pressure the defendant into taking a plea bargain instead of risking trial.

Saves money, gives the prosecutors a guaranteed W on their record, it's a good deal all around except for the possible "it isn't justice" part because the accused, though innocent, decided not to roll the dice.

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Took my time machine into the shop for service and they said they'd get on it first thing last week.

When cases involve "bad bastards" it's easy to not be concerned with prosecution tactics. But I think there have been a few cases recently where the accused is on the face of it... an average Joe.

I take your point Unitron... and I am ALL FOR getting some perp to cop a plea and save us all the time and hassle and expense of a trial. But... having also in mind what I said about Juries winding up deciding on a compromise verdict... perhaps (in my dream world).. Prosecutors could play the over-charge game to force a plea... but if it fails, still "get real" as the trial starts. State the real charge... no lesser included charges?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Court sees bullet riddled dead teen’s SUV in trial of white engineer who shot black high schooler for playing ‘thug music’ too loudly

• Michael Dunn, 47, has plead not-guilty to first-degree murder for shooting dead 17-year-old Jordan Davis in November 2012
  
• The jury has seen the bullet-riddled SUV Dunn fired into
  
• The defense says Dunn was defending himself after seeing Davis grab either a shotgun or a lead pipe
  
• But police found no evidence of a weapon in the vehicle and the prosecution says the men did not threaten Dunn
  
• The case could conclude as early as February 14

By Ryan Gorman and Ashley Collman and Associated Press Reporter
PUBLISHED: 20:58 GMT, 9 February 2014 | UPDATED: 22:05 GMT, 9 February 2014



The jury in the trial of Michael Dunn, accused of gunning down a black teen for playing music too loud, was shown the victim's bullet-riddled SUV this week.

Michael Dunn, 47, is accused of killing Jordan Davis, 17, he has pleaded not guilty but prosecutors showed the jury his SUV with nine bullet holes - his girlfriend previously testified he turned to her and said 'I hate that thug music' before she heard gun shots.

Ronda Rouer told the court they had both been drinking before went inside a gas station for wine and potato chips and Dunn shot the SUV up - he claims the shooting was in self-defense.

The pair consumed a few rum and cokes at Dunn's son's wedding earlier in the night before they went to the gas station where the fateful shooting occurred.

Dunn has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder and three counts of attempted first-degree murder for the other passengers in the car.

The man's defense attorney Cory Strolla says he was only trying to defend himself, after seeing Davis grab what looked to be either a shotgun or a lead pipe.

But prosecutors say the four men in the vehicle weren't armed, and while they did disrespect him, they never threatened the man.

....more at link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... music.html

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

I have noticed a lot of chatter... at lynch mob sites.

Talking about "evidence" that Dunn is a racist etc. Dunn's jail house letters. Police interviews with Dunn's neighbours etc.

Hysterical posters have not grasped that the "evidence" in this case is what gets presented in court. The trial has not got to the sort of information they are all reading and getting excited about. My guess is most of it is irrelevant to the events at the time of the shooting and will NOT be admitted into evidence. We'll see.

A lot of this is being posted by Davis family attorney John Phillips at his web site. Pushing the case that Dunn is guilty.
However this is not EVIDENCE unless it ends up being presented in court, and most of it will NOT is my guess. If any of it is presented then it will be open to cross examination at the very least.

I am glad that for once I have not seen all the stuff that comes out in the media from "family attorneys" attempting to try the case in the media. So far we (and the jury) have not been exposed to any evidence in regards Dunn's character, racist or otherwise.

It is early in the Prosecution case. The prosecution have established the basic events that took place. They have presented the teens as having done nothing to provoke Dunn other than play loud music. There is a suggestion that Dunn was predisposed to be annoyed "I hate this thug music". Hence they have suggested that Dunn was annoyed by music so much that he lost control and over-reacted by shooting at the car. Since they have charged murder and attempted murder of the other teens... I guess they are suggesting that Dunn did more than just fire in the direction of the car.. he had intent to kill all the occupants. (That seems a stretch to me.)

IMO the prosecution have done OK but there is certainly no "slam dunk" as the hysterical "lynch mob" forum posters have convinced themselves.

The defence has also managed to at least "sow some seeds"
The teens did have OPPORTUNITY to have stashed a weapon and the police investigation failed to even investigate that aspect of the case, an so Dunn's claim that he saw Davis with a shotgun is at least plausible. I think just from prosecution witnesses testimony it has been shown that Dunn was calm, while the teens, Davis in particular, were disrespectful and verbally aggressive.

Beyond that... we need to wait and see what evidence is presented IN COURT.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Yes so much of the trial seems a game to me. Overcharging and the spin at the end in closing. You can figure I'm against closing arguments that go beyond just the facts.

I missed the witness who said something about stashing the gun so that's big. Have to catch up. And not doing a grid search or searching for a few days brings to mind the OJ case when they didn't do a grid for a couple of weeks if I remember right.

The "stashing something" was in a 911 call.... the words were uttered and they are on tape. I would not take it as hard evidence that the witness saw them stashing a gun... but then all the defence has to do is raise reasonable doubt.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Dunn's neighbors talk chit about Dunn. I don't know what to think, but they don't sound rehearsed. Not crazy about the Crump pauses in the tape.

According to the neighbors he wanted a hit put out on someone, he was emotionally abusive to his kids and his mates. The kid part sounds right since today it was stated by both that they rarely see him.

http://t.co/wQHdou1pCn

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“You just hold your head high and keep those fists down. No matter what anybody says to you, don't you let 'em get your goat. Try fightin' with your head for a change.
-Atticus Finch”

A couple of "random thoughts" on today's testimony:

I have no idea why child locks are imp except if Davis tried to get out, but he didn't....he was shot in the side,,too..so..ok. but in my car the child-proof switch is on each back door.

I want to see this stress expert. I wonder if the defense wanted the continuance cause they were waiting for his report, that of course, the prosecutor needs now.

And I would like to play loud rap music for the jury, the exact song Davis and group had on.

Whether Davis was in or out the car... is in dispute.

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

What Dunn's neighbours say on Phillips audio is irrelevant. Not in evidence because it is irrelevant

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night.
___________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

Thanks for clarifying that for me, I missed that! Now I am wondering what else i missed!!